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Come Lupi tra le Pecore: History & Ideology of NSBM
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DTBRex



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 3283
Location: Arktogäa

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
DTBRex wrote:
NK7 wrote:
pro-drug/pro-abortion/pro-satanism


That's the quintessence of NSBM, then?

I don't know, you tell me.


Cut the crap but read the book; maybe you could engage in any meaningful discussion concerning this topic if you'd do. As if that would ever happen, though!
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satanic ritual abuse



Joined: 09 May 2011
Posts: 2217

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

astralvesl wrote:
...some of you seem to think that Nazism and National Socialism are the same thing, if you are one of these people I suggest you read a book. Simply put though, national socialism can be applied to basically any heritage-based group of people w/ a single national identity derived from a specific area (i.e. country, land, etc...). That said, yea there isn't really much in black metal "ideology" that you can align w/ national socialism but who cares, it's just music.

Is it possible that you mean Nazism & Nationalism (Chauvinism) because

Nazism
the German form of fascism, especially that of the National Socialist (German: Nazionalsozialist) Workers’ party under Adolf Hitler. — Nazi, n., adj.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Nazism


NK7 wrote:



What's up with that? Werwolf Resistance in action?
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Stalinorgel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same retarded "What if....?" discussion again.

Yeah, what if Hitler would have been into Rock'n'Roll music - if he didn't die in 1945? What if Euronymous killed Vikernes? What if I have a laser-gun and unlimited ammunition?

Such mind-plays are for 6 year old kids that ask their parents why the sun is hot - or for philosophy students.

Oh, breaking news: Frank Herbert didn't like Iron Maiden, still they made a song about Dune. And I don't think HPL, Tolkien, Nietzsche, Crowley and all the others would have been into BM either.

Apropos: There ARE Mongolian Nazis. They are against Chinese immigrants, who steal their jobs.


Last edited by Stalinorgel on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Speerhead



Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
The same retarded "What if....?" discussion again.

Yeah, what if Hitler would have been into Rock'n'Roll music - if he didn't die in 1945? What if Euronymous killed Vikernes? What if I have a laser-gun and unlimited ammunition?

Such mind-plays are for 6 year old kids that ask their parents why the sun is hot - or for philosophy students.

Oh, breaking news: Frank Herbert didn't like Iron Maiden, still they made a song about Dune. And I don't think HPL, Tolkien, Nietzsche, Crowley and all the others would have been into BM either.


Nietzsche was a fiend for those Wagner pic LPs though.
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satanic ritual abuse



Joined: 09 May 2011
Posts: 2217

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But when he found out that they sound like shit, he destroyed them and made his own wonderful music (<-reference for philosophy students).
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astralvesl



Joined: 13 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

satanic ritual abuse wrote:

Is it possible that you mean Nazism & Nationalism (Chauvinism) because

Nazism
the German form of fascism, especially that of the National Socialist (German: Nazionalsozialist) Workers’ party under Adolf Hitler. — Nazi, n., adj.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Nazism


No. Nazism used NS ideas as a foundation, but the philosophical concept and plausible political application of NS are not the same as Nazism.
Edit: LOL at that link you posted, is that site a joke? That shit's worth than wikipedia. Apparently National Socialism was invented by German Dictator Adolf Hitler and coints anti-semitism as a central component.


Last edited by astralvesl on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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satanic ritual abuse



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Nazi

"Nazi, abbreviation of German pronunciation of Nationalsozialist"

O.K. then, I guess we all have different sources, probably some writers try to coin their own meaning.
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astralvesl



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I just did a few minutes of google research for national socialism and my god is it misleading. Maybe people really aren't taught this stuff in school? Some names you might want to look up: Rousseau, Proudhon, Berth, Lagardelle, Sorel, Barrés, Maurras, Biétry, Valois, etc... The concept of national socialism has been floating around since the late 1800s but many of its points can be traced back to the 16-1700s.
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satanic ritual abuse



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rousseau & Proudhon/Sorel (as anarcho-/syndicalists) hardly share the same political implications (especially concerning the importance of violence)...but you're right of course, the fundaments of National Socialism reach deep into the roots of Enlightenment, the Dialectic of Enlightenment. It's also interesting to look at Gregor Strasser and his idea of National Socialism in times of Nazism for example. I'm gonna look into the Cercle Proudhon (Valois, Berth), never heard of this before.
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Stalinorgel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
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satanic ritual abuse



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to Hannah Arendt's rehabilitation of Carl Schmitt even Neo-Marxists and Post-Structuralists can read him without guilt.
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southern_death



Joined: 02 Jun 2012
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Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
The same retarded "What if....?" discussion again.

Yeah, what if Hitler would have been into Rock'n'Roll music - if he didn't die in 1945? What if Euronymous killed Vikernes? What if I have a laser-gun and unlimited ammunition?

Such mind-plays are for 6 year old kids that ask their parents why the sun is hot - or for philosophy students.


Indeed. In fact, any (good) philosphy student would say that is no need to discuss anything here. All what NK7 and his fellows are doing is gross generalizations and bringings huge anachronism into debate. "What if this or what if that"... bullshit...

Read this, please: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anachronism

National Socialism was -like any other human activity- culture and thus a product of its time, with certain phylosophical and historical roots and certain (solutions to) problems of their time. Not the hollywood bullshit you north americans buy.

NS =/= white power groups (that came later, in a different context).
NS = german nationalism (manifested/applied in a certain historical time).



Or:


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astralvesl



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

satanic ritual abuse wrote:
Rousseau & Proudhon/Sorel (as anarcho-/syndicalists) hardly share the same political implications (especially concerning the importance of violence)...but you're right of course, the fundaments of National Socialism reach deep into the roots of Enlightenment, the Dialectic of Enlightenment. It's also interesting to look at Gregor Strasser and his idea of National Socialism in times of Nazism for example. I'm gonna look into the Cercle Proudhon (Valois, Berth), never heard of this before.


See I would argue that the importance of violence is not actually a true tenant of national socialism but rather a conceivable byproduct. In reference to Strasser, I've read about him enough times but never anything he's actually written, what's worthwhile? I'm a big fan of Heidegger's thoughts on the matter, arguably formulated best in his 1933-35 lectures, if we're talking about impressions of NS during Nazism. Are you aware of Rudolf Jung? His Der Nationale Sozialismus... is pretty solid for detailing the rise of NS ideas in Austria pre-nazism. By the way, does anyone know if that was ever translated into english? My German is nowhere near as good as it should be so I doubt I understood it as well as I should have.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:

read the book

You do realizing you're coming across as a pathetic douche every time you dodge the points I raise by recommending people to read a dumb book (which apparently is the sole source of your dubious "knowledge" on NS) written by metalheads, don't you?
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NK7
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
The same retarded "What if....?" discussion again.

Yeah, what if Hitler would have been into Rock'n'Roll music - if he didn't die in 1945? What if Euronymous killed Vikernes? What if I have a laser-gun and unlimited ammunition?

Such mind-plays are for 6 year old kids that ask their parents why the sun is hot - or for philosophy students.

This is clearly not about that. The core of National Socialism was (and still is) moral integrity, loyalty, healthy lifestyle, rejection of drugs, rejection of homosexuality, love for your own nation, rejection of abortion, pro-life approach. And I'm not even mentioning the religious aspects of it, as most old and modern fascist/parafascist/NS regimes and groups are strictly religious-oriented. How that combines with a subgenre that openly advocates lack of morals, tolerates homosexuality, drug use and all sorts of retarded anti-life bullshit has yet to be proved. Yeah, these are "gross generalizations", indeed:








but hey, obviously "the book" has all the answers Laughing
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Last edited by NK7 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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