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ForeBears -- A Film by Marie Cachet and VARG VIKERNES
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Voidhanger



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 1258
Location: Kanada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADK wrote:
Count G. wrote:
Even China had their civilisation from Europeans


Ok, that is maybe the most HILARIOUS historical conspiracy bullshit I ever heard.

Thinking of selling "Belus" by now....


If I got rid of albums because the beliefs behind them were whacked I wouldn't own anything...
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ravage



Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADK wrote:
Count G. wrote:
Even China had their civilisation from Europeans


Ok, that is maybe the most HILARIOUS historical conspiracy bullshit I ever heard.

Thinking of selling "Belus" by now....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies

Not saying I subscribe to that theory but this is what it's probably based on.
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cochino



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADK wrote:
Ah, Cochino and his historical "facts" are not much away from Vikernes and his "facts".

It's not "black and white" as you like it to be. Not ALL Hellenic culture was lost and not ALL was given back during the crusades from the Arabs (ca. 200 years after Karl der Grosse and his Holy Roman German Empire, mind you).

And surely not "modern western culture would have been nothing without the Arabs", man Cochino, are you serious with such statements? Completely random assumptions on your behalf.


What I am saying is that many of the most important works and milestones of Hellenic culture were recovered through the libraries and archives from the Arabs. The monasteries got them from there. I don't think I said that western culture woud've been nothing, and if I said so I didn't phrase it right (English is not my first language). I am saying that the current European culture owes a lot to Arabic culture, and it certainly wouldn't be the same. What it would be like nobody knows, of course. As I said is that cultures don't exist isolated from each other and that plenty of breakthroughs and advances were the product of cultural interchange.
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astralvesl



Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 974

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who did you learn burned the library of Alexandria?
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ADK



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 1039

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cochino wrote:
The monasteries got them from there.


Oha, that is interesting. Please explain how and when the European monasteries got the Hellenic culture from the Arabs. Maybe you need the help of a map for it?
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cochino



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were a lot of monks and people belonging to the clergy that worked translating texts from Arab to Latin, including many Greek texts. You know that there was a lot of contact between the Muslims and the Christians back in the middle ages, right? As in the Muslims occupying about half of the Iberian peninsule for about 500 years?
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wasteland



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cochino wrote:
The Chinese had noodles but the Italians thought about eating it with tomato sauce


Thank the maker.
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Under Command



Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 724
Location: Down there

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the africans had AIDS and the gays thought about spreading it. fucking team work...

Rolling Eyes Laughing
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ADK



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 1039

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cochino wrote:
There were a lot of monks and people belonging to the clergy that worked translating texts from Arab to Latin, including many Greek texts. You know that there was a lot of contact between the Muslims and the Christians back in the middle ages, right? As in the Muslims occupying about half of the Iberian peninsule for about 500 years?


Aha, interesting. From what I know, the first monasteries where in Germany and France, mainly by the Order of Saint Benedict, ca. 500 AD. How where they capable of translating Arab texts to Latin? And from where did they get those Arabic texts (before their Prophet was even born, ironically)?

As you know, the Arabs were NEVER in France or Germany, but stopped by Karl Martell at the Battle of just forgot the name ca. 700 AD. AFTER that, the Arabs were sitting around in Iberia until 1490something. And I don't think they had some ancient Hellenic wisdom in their pockets while trying to conquer Europe.

However, this still doesn't explain how "lost" Hellenic culture came via the Arabs in the European monasteries, as you proclaim. So, where and how did this exactly happened?
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cochino



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The texts I've read are all in Spanish and I don't really want to spend much time doing research just for this so just check this out as a starting point to get a general idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Classics
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ADK



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 1039

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wikipedia knows it best, thank you.

q.e.d.

Wink
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astralvesl



Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 974

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cochino wrote:
The texts I've read are all in Spanish and I don't really want to spend much time doing research just for this so just check this out as a starting point to get a general idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Classics


Perhaps you misunderstand or we're misunderstanding you, but even Burgess Laughlin, who that article cites as support for the assertions that I assume you are basing your claim on, doesn't believe that Hellenistic philosophy/culture was "lost" to the west. Rather, his point is to show the evolution and transmission of Hellenistic works, something that the Arabs did in fact have a great deal of involvement with (specifically Averroes). Just because the latin west was not actively studying (i.e. in monasteries) hellenistic texts does not mean that they were not studying texts that utilized them nor does it mean that they had lost the hellenistic texts or the knowledge contained within them. The time period you're referring to involved an intellectual shift, and the Arabs brought that focus back to hellenistic philosophy, they did not preserve that which had otherwise been lost as you seem to claim.
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Hallucinogen



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 617

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe
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