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Warfare Noise



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blutkvlt wrote:
Madhukapala wrote:
It's important to understand that most of what we call "occultism" is actually a hodge-podge of poorly understood ideas ripped off from larger, older religious traditions. It is not "ancient wisdom" - instead, it reflects the biases and aspirations of a bunch of 19th and 20th century malcontents. For instance, the concept of the Left Hand Path vs. the Right Hand Path was an almost completely artificial creation of Blavatsky, based on her crude misunderstanding of the Tantric "Vamamarga" and "Dakshinamarga".

Someone who wants a better understanding of the occult would be better served by studying older forms of religious mysticism less burdened by the angsty blathering of LHP basement wizards. This is not to say that all occult literature from the last few centuries is total garbage - just that it's better to go to the root. Look into neoplatonism, gnosticism, Kabbalah and most importantly, Tantric Hinduism and Tantric Buddhism.

And keep that "left hand path" vs "right hand path" bullshit out of your head. It's a stupid dichotomy which is entirely modern.


Any recommendations for books on Tantric Hinduism/Buddhism?


holy fuck

Ross wrote:
Clavicula_Nox wrote:
Does anyone know if Fosforos will have a US distributer?



I highly doubt it.....they don't usually do that.


Actually, they usually DO do that. Often you can get their releases from Ajna in the US. However, this release they were able to sell all copies directly so... no distribution this time around.

+ + +

Good points from Madhukapala. Any person seriously interested should of course "go to the source". That being said, discarding modern occultism entirely for the reasons pointed out above is a bit like hating Hellhammer because they can't play their instruments.

I do think there is a value in modern occult literature, even if its just aesthetic.
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Desolate



Joined: 06 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warfare Noise wrote:
I do think there is a value in modern occult literature, even if its just aesthetic.

...and it's even better, if one does make actual results with these modern, "aesthetical" ramblings.
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satanic ritual abuse



Joined: 09 May 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfsturm888 wrote:
Always try to seek the true occult treasures that are hidden in so many books... Like:


Jacob Grimm - Deutsche Mythologie (German Mythology)
Edred Thorsson (S.F.) - Handbuch der Runenmagie
Jan De Vries - Die Geisetswelt der Germanen
Peter Carroll - Liber Kaos + Liber Null
Freya Aswynn - The leafes of Yggrdasil


I have those in my bookshelf, might check Evola/Sevi/Serrano sooner or later, so far I have only read Mircea Eliade extensively, who had contacts to the Traditionalist School, particularly Evola.
I don't think Chamberlain is fitting into the occult literature section though, he was a biologist and claimed to be a scientist. He was rather a positivist than a follower of an arcane/perennial/clandestine/occult force (well maybe he found some pangermanic force when reading Goethe or he found the occult essence in the mythological remarks of Platon. But his writings are rather popular science).
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F.N.



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck Ixaxaar! For literature of real Satanism / Devil Worship look at
Section XIII Coma and Vox Inferni
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Madhukapala



Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blutkvlt wrote:

Any recommendations for books on Tantric Hinduism/Buddhism?


A very accessible/basic introduction to the Hindu branch:

http://www.amazon.com/Tantra-Path-Ecstasy-Georg-Feuerstein/dp/157062304X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363855132&sr=8-1&keywords=tantra+path+of+ecstasy

This book may or may not be a 'fake' in that the guru (Vimalananda) whose teachings it supposedly conveys might have been invented by the author. Bit of a Carlos Castaneda/Don Juan scenario. Nevertheless, the material accurately captures the Tantric perspective, and India is crawling with gurus more or less identical to Vimalananda:

http://www.amazon.com/AGHORA-Left-Hand-God-Aghora/dp/0914732218/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363855980&sr=1-1&keywords=aghora

If you ever want something a little bit more academic in tone (as well as totally up front about the gritty reality of Tantic practice), check out the work of David G. White. He's probably the leading Tantra scholar in English speaking world.

For Tantric Buddhism (i.e, Tibetan Buddhism), these two companion pieces are a decent starting point:

http://www.amazon.com/Indestructible-Truth-Spirituality-Tibetan-Buddhism/dp/1570629102/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363856783&sr=1-1&keywords=indestructible+truth

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Vajra-World-Tantric-Buddhism/dp/157062917X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363856783&sr=1-2&keywords=indestructible+truth


A few things to keep in mind if you pursue any of this... Learning about Tantra is made difficult by a number of factors. The first problem is that there's a lot of New Age trash out there about 'Tantric sexual healing' and 'Goddess worship massage'. Ignore it - this is not Tantra. The second complication is that practitioners of authentic Tantric traditions are often reluctant to fully disclose the nature of their beliefs and practices. In some cases, they are sworn to secrecy. In other cases (especially Tibetan Buddhism), practitioners are anxious to emphasize the parts of their tradition that are most appealing to Westerners while concealing the aspects which violate Western social norms. This is why so many books on Tibetan Buddhism come across as trite self-help guides. You'd never know, by reading them, that Tibetan Buddhism is historically full of necromancy, alchemy, sexual ritual and murder.

Have fun.
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Steken



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you’re looking for SCHOLARLY books on the subject, the following five works, all in English, are absolutely BRILLIANT and simply CAN NOT BE MISSED:

1. “Esotericism and the Academy”, by Wouter Hanegraaff. – This excellent book deals with how concepts of occultism and magic have developed in the Western world, roughly speaking from the Renaissance and on. (If you’re going to read only one single book on the subject, let it be this one.)

2. “The Theosophical Enlightenment”, by Joscelyn Godwin. – This one deals more specifically with the transformations of occultism in the 19th century, and includes, for example, a lot of fascinating material on some very important British magicians.

3. “Laboratories Of Faith”, by John Warne Monroe. – This one takes a closer look on the French “scene”, as it were, and includes some of the very best writing ever done about L’Ordre Martiniste, a very important and influential magical order.

4. “Claiming Knowledge”, by Olav Hammer. – This one dissects claims, tactics, methods, arguments etc. commonly used by (modern) occultists and New Age-types. It’s the most, uh, let’s say “unforgiving” work of the lot, and perfect for sceptics etc.

5. “Dictionary of Gnosis and Western Esotericism” by Wouter Hanegraaff (ed.). – I’m pretty sure I’ve already mentioned this one, on this very forum, haven’t I? At more than 1200 pages (!), it’s the ultimate encyclopedia on occultism and related currents, chock-full of meticulously well-researched articles on everything from Syrian neo-Platonic theurgy to Satanic sex magic in the Weimar Republic.

Please note: These books are written not by practicing occultists, but by SCHOLARS. Different strokes for different folks, and all that…

For clarifications or further recommendations, just ask.
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huntersinsnow



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madhukapala wrote:
Blutkvlt wrote:

Any recommendations for books on Tantric Hinduism/Buddhism?


A very accessible/basic introduction to the Hindu branch:

http://www.amazon.com/Tantra-Path-Ecstasy-Georg-Feuerstein/dp/157062304X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363855132&sr=8-1&keywords=tantra+path+of+ecstasy

This book may or may not be a 'fake' in that the guru (Vimalananda) whose teachings it supposedly conveys might have been invented by the author. Bit of a Carlos Castaneda/Don Juan scenario. Nevertheless, the material accurately captures the Tantric perspective, and India is crawling with gurus more or less identical to Vimalananda:

http://www.amazon.com/AGHORA-Left-Hand-God-Aghora/dp/0914732218/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363855980&sr=1-1&keywords=aghora

If you ever want something a little bit more academic in tone (as well as totally up front about the gritty reality of Tantic practice), check out the work of David G. White. He's probably the leading Tantra scholar in English speaking world.

For Tantric Buddhism (i.e, Tibetan Buddhism), these two companion pieces are a decent starting point:

http://www.amazon.com/Indestructible-Truth-Spirituality-Tibetan-Buddhism/dp/1570629102/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363856783&sr=1-1&keywords=indestructible+truth

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Vajra-World-Tantric-Buddhism/dp/157062917X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363856783&sr=1-2&keywords=indestructible+truth


A few things to keep in mind if you pursue any of this... Learning about Tantra is made difficult by a number of factors. The first problem is that there's a lot of New Age trash out there about 'Tantric sexual healing' and 'Goddess worship massage'. Ignore it - this is not Tantra. The second complication is that practitioners of authentic Tantric traditions are often reluctant to fully disclose the nature of their beliefs and practices. In some cases, they are sworn to secrecy. In other cases (especially Tibetan Buddhism), practitioners are anxious to emphasize the parts of their tradition that are most appealing to Westerners while concealing the aspects which violate Western social norms. This is why so many books on Tibetan Buddhism come across as trite self-help guides. You'd never know, by reading them, that Tibetan Buddhism is historically full of necromancy, alchemy, sexual ritual and murder.

Have fun.


Thanks for this info. What do you think of The Yoga of Power by Evola? I'm reading it now.
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Madhukapala



Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntersinsnow wrote:

Thanks for this info. What do you think of The Yoga of Power by Evola? I'm reading it now.


I read some of that like 8 years ago, but I don't remember a whole lot about it. I find Evola quite hit and miss in general. I don't entirely trust him not to misrepresent traditions by reframing them according to his own biases and fixations. For instance, it always seemed to me that he was very anxious to categorize everything according to very strict dichotomies, i.e, the 'solar' spirit vs. the 'lunar' spirit. That kind of dualism doesn't have a lot of precedent in South Asian thought. At the same time, a lot of Evola's perspective does seem implicitly Tantric... Particularly his understanding that transcendence doesn't necessarily involve an end to action or a rejection of the temporal world. Just take his stuff with a fistful of salt.
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huntersinsnow



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madhukapala wrote:
huntersinsnow wrote:

Thanks for this info. What do you think of The Yoga of Power by Evola? I'm reading it now.


I read some of that like 8 years ago, but I don't remember a whole lot about it. I find Evola quite hit and miss in general. I don't entirely trust him not to misrepresent traditions by reframing them according to his own biases and fixations. For instance, it always seemed to me that he was very anxious to categorize everything according to very strict dichotomies, i.e, the 'solar' spirit vs. the 'lunar' spirit. That kind of dualism doesn't have a lot of precedent in South Asian thought. At the same time, a lot of Evola's perspective does seem implicitly Tantric... Particularly his understanding that transcendence doesn't necessarily involve an end to action or a rejection of the temporal world. Just take his stuff with a fistful of salt.


Thanks, that's helpful. I have read some of his other books and am familiar with his worldview, but I admittedly don't know much about Tantra so it's difficult to discern what is biased or not. I will look into those other books you recommended.
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In Solitude



Joined: 10 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madhukapala wrote:
It's important to understand that most of what we call "occultism" is actually a hodge-podge of poorly understood ideas ripped off from larger, older religious traditions. It is not "ancient wisdom" - instead, it reflects the biases and aspirations of a bunch of 19th and 20th century malcontents. For instance, the concept of the Left Hand Path vs. the Right Hand Path was an almost completely artificial creation of Blavatsky, based on her crude misunderstanding of the Tantric "Vamamarga" and "Dakshinamarga".

Someone who wants a better understanding of the occult would be better served by studying older forms of religious mysticism less burdened by the angsty blathering of LHP basement wizards. This is not to say that all occult literature from the last few centuries is total garbage - just that it's better to go to the root. Look into neoplatonism, gnosticism, Kabbalah and most importantly, Tantric Hinduism and Tantric Buddhism.

And keep that "left hand path" vs "right hand path" bullshit out of your head. It's a stupid dichotomy which is entirely modern.


All that needs to be said. The modern mind is so shallow, and going to the source is absolutely required.

Also, thanks to whoever posted the scholarly works; they sound very interesting. On that note, Ritual Magic by E.M. Butler is a very good scholarly look at Faustian and Solomonic ritual magic traditions and practices.
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Blutkvlt



Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madhukapala wrote:
Blutkvlt wrote:

Any recommendations for books on Tantric Hinduism/Buddhism?


A very accessible/basic introduction to the Hindu branch:

http://www.amazon.com/Tantra-Path-Ecstasy-Georg-Feuerstein/dp/157062304X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363855132&sr=8-1&keywords=tantra+path+of+ecstasy

This book may or may not be a 'fake' in that the guru (Vimalananda) whose teachings it supposedly conveys might have been invented by the author. Bit of a Carlos Castaneda/Don Juan scenario. Nevertheless, the material accurately captures the Tantric perspective, and India is crawling with gurus more or less identical to Vimalananda:

http://www.amazon.com/AGHORA-Left-Hand-God-Aghora/dp/0914732218/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363855980&sr=1-1&keywords=aghora

If you ever want something a little bit more academic in tone (as well as totally up front about the gritty reality of Tantic practice), check out the work of David G. White. He's probably the leading Tantra scholar in English speaking world.

For Tantric Buddhism (i.e, Tibetan Buddhism), these two companion pieces are a decent starting point:

http://www.amazon.com/Indestructible-Truth-Spirituality-Tibetan-Buddhism/dp/1570629102/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363856783&sr=1-1&keywords=indestructible+truth

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Vajra-World-Tantric-Buddhism/dp/157062917X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363856783&sr=1-2&keywords=indestructible+truth


A few things to keep in mind if you pursue any of this... Learning about Tantra is made difficult by a number of factors. The first problem is that there's a lot of New Age trash out there about 'Tantric sexual healing' and 'Goddess worship massage'. Ignore it - this is not Tantra. The second complication is that practitioners of authentic Tantric traditions are often reluctant to fully disclose the nature of their beliefs and practices. In some cases, they are sworn to secrecy. In other cases (especially Tibetan Buddhism), practitioners are anxious to emphasize the parts of their tradition that are most appealing to Westerners while concealing the aspects which violate Western social norms. This is why so many books on Tibetan Buddhism come across as trite self-help guides. You'd never know, by reading them, that Tibetan Buddhism is historically full of necromancy, alchemy, sexual ritual and murder.

Have fun.


I noticed a lot of what you said about new age-y bullshit, which is why I've had a hard time finding anything of value. Thanks for the recommendations.
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Madhukapala



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blutkvlt wrote:

I noticed a lot of what you said about new age-y bullshit, which is why I've had a hard time finding anything of value. Thanks for the recommendations.


Yeah. Even with a few of the books I recommended, a certain amount of patience and reading between the lines will be in order. The two books on Buddhism, for instance, are written by an American practitioner for a largely American audience. Accordingly, the tone will be quite 'light'. Nevertheless, they provide a good introduction to the basics of theory and practice in the tradition.

If you're curious about the way contemporary 'non-New Age' Western occultists make use of this stuff, you may find this blog interesting:

http://vamamarga.blogspot.com/
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rauta



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For easy reading (although heavy digestion) on Eastern mysticism I would recommend the Tibetan Book of the Dead and Grant's essay collection, At the Feet of the Guru. One might be hard pressed to start with anything as thick as Bhagavad Gita plus, for a Western person, I find it helps to have an according perspective to begin with for an author or commentator. And on that note, the first part of Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine is quite insightful (and not too long).
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Blutkvlt



Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rauta wrote:
For easy reading (although heavy digestion) on Eastern mysticism I would recommend the Tibetan Book of the Dead and Grant's essay collection, At the Feet of the Guru. One might be hard pressed to start with anything as thick as Bhagavad Gita plus, for a Western person, I find it helps to have an according perspective to begin with for an author or commentator. And on that note, the first part of Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine is quite insightful (and not too long).


Actually just read through a translation of the Gita recently and it was rather thin, so I'm assuming you mean thick concept-wise. Maybe why I didn't get so much out of it (though there were a few interesting parts), having not had a real primer on the concepts therein.
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taranis



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blutkvlt wrote:
rauta wrote:
For easy reading (although heavy digestion) on Eastern mysticism I would recommend the Tibetan Book of the Dead and Grant's essay collection, At the Feet of the Guru. One might be hard pressed to start with anything as thick as Bhagavad Gita plus, for a Western person, I find it helps to have an according perspective to begin with for an author or commentator. And on that note, the first part of Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine is quite insightful (and not too long).


Actually just read through a translation of the Gita recently and it was rather thin, so I'm assuming you mean thick concept-wise. Maybe why I didn't get so much out of it (though there were a few interesting parts), having not had a real primer on the concepts therein.


savitri devi and miguel serrano can help you for understand some hinduism conception
and Coomaraswamy
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