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Mortal Sin question

 
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Dalen



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 1776

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Mortal Sin question Reply with quote

Concerning their debut, Mayhemic Destruction.. I have the CD on Customline records and some slight 'glitches' and skips can be sound here and there. Is there any other 'clean' CD or LP version and which ones should I avoid?
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skip any remaster!

A person into sound engineering (don't know if he still is member of this forum) once wrote this:

---
Some words about the 2007 remaster (also included on the limied double CD set of "Psychology Of Death"):
Besides my original MEGA METAL and VERTIGO pressings, I decided to buy the new album as double CD set, so I have the debut for my car stereo.
I listened carefully to the remaster and I noticed a lot of sound flaws and mistakes in the master...!!! Did anybody listen to the 2007 remaster, also released with some live tracks some years ago ??? There are some small drop-outs in the sound and there is no track included without any fault...very sad and a shame !!! [...]
In the end I ripped my original MEGA METAL vinyl to computer - and there are no mistakes !!! So it could be a damaged master tape or a lousy and hurry remastering job from a bad source tape, used for the 2008 CD and the "Psychology Of Death" bonus (it is the same master on both versions !!!)...who knows...???
---
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Last edited by peterott on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Additionally the guy wrote this in a German forum (in German, so I translated it quickly):

---
The Vertigo LP from 1988 seem error-free, but sounds like being copied from the Mega Metal Records LP and then pressed again (like the CD remastered versions). Due to the noise and more distortion in the higher medium-range of frequencies especially with the last song each on Side A) and B) it can be assumed that already in 1988, there was no master tape left and since then every re-press is taken as a copy from the 1987 vinyl as master source.

I suspect that this copied master source is exactly what was on DAT and used for the remasteringprocess in 2007. As experience has shown me, also DAT tapes suffer during long-term storage under bad conditions and this might be one of the reasons for the audible deficits on the 2007 remaster: either to a faulty, stored DAT tape or a defective player.
---
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And finally (also quickly translated):

---
The Mega Metal Records version from 1987 is pressed completely off-center. So if you want to rip this to your PC and digitize it on your own to get a better result than any of the existing CD-presses, you'll need a lot of slip-mats and a bit of visual judgement (plus a tonearm that can be adjusted in height) to correct the off-center pressing.
---
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Dalen



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think I didn't buy that DCD because of that guy's warning. My copy is an older press than the ones stated but it is digitally remastered. Was this ever released on CD back in the day? I think I'll buy the original vinyl when I have some spare cash to burn.
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drinks



Joined: 15 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterott wrote:
And finally (also quickly translated):

---
The Mega Metal Records version from 1987 is pressed completely off-center. So if you want to rip this to your PC and digitize it on your own to get a better result than any of the existing CD-presses, you'll need a lot of slip-mats and a bit of visual judgement (plus a tonearm that can be adjusted in height) to correct the off-center pressing.
---

This is true that it is pressed slightly off-center, but I have no idea what this guy is talking about with slip mats and tonearm height? Height has nothing to do with it, you need to correct rotation in the horizontal plane (essentially requiring drilling the center hole to make the grooves concentric). However this record sounds great if played with a quality conical stylus on an arm that can keep up with its eccentricity, elliptical generally cause a bit of distortion.

The 2007 version is the first official CD. It was bootlegged by Reborn Classics in the 90s.
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drinks wrote:
peterott wrote:
And finally (also quickly translated):

---
The Mega Metal Records version from 1987 is pressed completely off-center. So if you want to rip this to your PC and digitize it on your own to get a better result than any of the existing CD-presses, you'll need a lot of slip-mats and a bit of visual judgement (plus a tonearm that can be adjusted in height) to correct the off-center pressing.
---

This is true that it is pressed slightly off-center, but I have no idea what this guy is talking about with slip mats and tonearm height? Height has nothing to do with it, you need to correct rotation in the horizontal plane (essentially requiring drilling the center hole to make the grooves concentric). However this record sounds great if played with a quality conical stylus on an arm that can keep up with its eccentricity, elliptical generally cause a bit of distortion.

The 2007 version is the first official CD. It was bootlegged by Reborn Classics in the 90s.



Put as much slipmats on your player until there is no plug (Zapfen, where you put the LP with the centerhole on it). Then put the vinyl on it, higher the tonearm, as if this position is the new 0-position, and then move the LP slightly until there is no off-center movement by the tonearm.

Don't know how to explain this better, but if you put the LP with the centerhole on the plug of the recordplayer, you can't move it anymore. so higher the position until the plug is buried with slipmats, then you can move the position of the vinyl. But the tonearm needs to get higher by the same amount of height as you've increased with the slipmats, else the sound is shit and the original position of the tonearm may even cause damage to the vinyl, when this is put 11mm higher (that's the length of the plug/Zapfen of my vinylplayer).
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drinks



Joined: 15 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I understand now. Seems like a lot of work to play a record. Just buy a Nakamichi Dragon CT and it will auto-center for you Laughing
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Saltrubbed Eyes



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been after this for a while..

The Mega Metal Records LP version is the one that was only pressed in Australia?

not sure if I want it if it needs adjustments to play it.

I live in NZ but only ever seem to find the Vertigo version, the Mega Metal Records version has better artwork though...
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drinks



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really not that out of round, at least my copy doesn't seem too bad. I've definitely seen a lot worse. My copy sounds great when played with a conical stylus, I wouldn't expect everyone to have one lying around though. It's not terrible with an elliptical/line contact either but there's definitely a little distortion. I imagine any copy that has been played a lot will have a fair amount of groove wear so finding a nice one may be a chore.
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Mendicant



Joined: 22 Mar 2011
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Location: Canberra, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saltrubbed Eyes wrote:
I live in NZ but only ever seem to find the Vertigo version, the Mega Metal Records version has better artwork though...


you reckon? I much prefer the Bisley 2nd cover as the original looks like a high school doodle



funnily enough after reading this thread yesterday I went to a Black Breath gig and saw a guy who I've never seen at gigs before in a Mayhemic shirt
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Dalen



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendicant wrote:
you reckon? I much prefer the Bisley 2nd cover as the original looks like a high school doodle


Seconded, my CD version comes with the original cover and I can't say I like it. I guess it won't be that easy finding an LP copy in great condition.
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Saltrubbed Eyes



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I like the Mega Metal version's cover because it was the one I always saw in the magazines back then, the Bisley 2nd cover is rather good but it's a nostalgia thing.
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drinks wrote:
Ah, I understand now. Seems like a lot of work to play a record. Just buy a Nakamichi Dragon CT and it will auto-center for you Laughing


It's more when you want to make a good rip. I have a Dual 721 with MM-system (if I remember right) and with headphones you can hear the off-center asap especially when tones are played and kept for several beats. You hear the waaaahwahhhhwahhhh immediately...
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