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Scene vs. genre
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harmless



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 2171
Location: 101 Reykjavík, Iceland.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:21 am    Post subject: Scene vs. genre Reply with quote

Now, let us see if we can get a serious discussion going on here. Metal related. My point is...

Quote:
You cannot put the NWOBHM-tag on non-British Heavy Metal bands, just like you can't say that non-Norwegian Black Metal bands play "Norwegian Black Metal".


Am I right or am I wrong? When does a scene become a genre like for example "Swedish Death Metal" with the Sunlight Studios sound?
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lifeless



Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 1465
Location: deep space crime, toronto

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's a case-by-case thing, there is no standard

for example, most people would agree that "greek black metal" is a particular sound
so is "der sturmer" greek black metal? they are black metal from greece, but seasoned scene veterans would intentionally choose to describe them in a different way, so there's no ambiguity

I think there are only a few of these ethnic black metal styles, the rest is just pointless marketing copy, because for some reason it's comforting to many to know where a band is from, because the music itself isn't enough

"canadian black metal" - what?
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holy ghost



Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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Location: CANADA RULES EH

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non-metal related, but when is "krautrock" anything but music made in Germany in the 70's? Yet I see it applied to contemporary bands all the fucking time and it's a real pet peeve of mine.
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Necrologue



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really see a problem with using geographically-specific genres to describe bands which aren't from that region, as long as the music fits. If one wants to be specific, they can simply add "-inspired" afterwards.
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holy ghost



Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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Location: CANADA RULES EH

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think with something like Krautrock, which was inspired as much by the cultural and political climates west Germany in the 70's as the bands they were influenced by, that does a huge disservice to that particular scene. Plus, no one "sounds" like anyone else. It's ridiculous to think the "scene" that birthed Tangerine Dream, Amon Duul II, Guru Guru, Faust and Kraftwerk have any musical connection.

Different for powerviolence, which was birthed out of a specific location but has morphed into a unique classification in the same way since again, none of the bands sound alike. Crossed Out, MITB, Capitalist Casualties have musically very little in common but that doesn't mean something can be described as "powerviolence".
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hellmask



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's just the nature of the beast...people just like to group things together.

Krautrock and powerviolence are good examples. Another example is the whole "grunge" scene. Musically, bands like Soundgarden, Nirvana, Mudhoney, Melvins and Tad really don't sound alike at all. Most of those bands released music on Sub Pop and/or were based in the Seattle area, so they all got grouped together under the flag of "grunge" when that whole scene exploded.

And this topic brings up a question about a more recent scene that gets some attention on this board: how long before "Nidrosian Black Metal" moves from a "scene" to a "genre"...or has that already happened???
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seed_stock



Joined: 15 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you've brought up a prime example by mentioning the term 'power violence'.

This was never really a genre or a scene until a term was promoted by Chris Dodge, and the genre was marketed through his record label.

("Slap a ham records: Making Power Violence a cheesy catch phrase since 1989", was their ironic slogan)

The initial wave of 'power violence' bands never even considered themselves of that genre (in the same way that 'Kraut rock' bands would never associate to that genre either). The bands who created 'power violence' simply played 'hardcore'.

It was not until a label owner or journalist created the tag that people started using it to actively describe things.

Once the genre-tag has been created it will immediately be abused in trying to sum up something that really cannot be so easily quantified.
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Last edited by seed_stock on Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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EK Nacht



Joined: 25 May 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Former South African post-metal band crafts new Cascadian Black Metal masterpiece
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holy ghost



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think powerviolence can be an exception to this since it started as a "scene" in socal and went on to describe a wider reaching "network of friends" in the 90's - whatever it's mutated into today I have no idea... (from my instagram feed it seems like it's mostly vegan cookies, vegan pizza and a lot of garbage bands). And didn't MITB "coin" the phrase in their delightful classic HSMP? I didn't get into this scene until about '95 so I have no idea if Chris Dodge was using the phrase before that song.... I'm sure at one point I did know, haha....

Before this morphs into a debate about what is and isn't powerviolence, please stop, I implore you fine people!! The world needs not such things!!!!!
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kktz



Joined: 15 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, I grow up on 80's hardcore and I liked early power violence, and to me it did sound enough different to be a genre of it's own.
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Psalmanazar



Joined: 23 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think even calling later, mid 90s onward Gothenburg melodeath, "Swedish death metal", is wrong as "Swedish death metal" suggests a particular sound, time, and place and later Gothenburg is not really death metal just like the great majority of melodic "death metal". Even Arghoslent has more in common with Running Wild and Iron Maiden than Deicide. Amon Amarth might as well be a power metal band. Then there are bands such as Intestine Baalism who play actual death metal that is melodic.

The same is true of NWOBHM. Many of these retro bands have more in common with Metallica and Riot than they do with Iron Maiden and Angel Witch.
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Caligari



Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolivian band from the Andes plays authentic Norwegian black metal.
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lifeless



Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking for south american norsecore recommendations, thanks
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hellmask



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psalmanazar wrote:
I think even calling later, mid 90s onward Gothenburg melodeath, "Swedish death metal", is wrong as "Swedish death metal" suggests a particular sound, time, and place and later Gothenburg is not really death metal just like the great majority of melodic "death metal".


Completely agree. I remember a few years ago I mentioned to my friend that I had been on a Swedish Death Metal binge at the time, and his response was "Ugh! I hate that melodic crap!" I had to set him straight about what true Swedish DM is! Cool
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lifeless



Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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Location: deep space crime, toronto

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kktz wrote:
I don't know, I grow up on 80's hardcore and I liked early power violence, and to me it did sound enough different to be a genre of it's own.


powerviolence to me sounded like Siege on bad coke cut with speed (not an insult)
funny.. I think MiTB sounds the least powerviolencey of the bands that have this term applied

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