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Svartrit, Dödfödd LPs etc OUT NOW!
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The_Elite



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 2687
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time for some rambling... Even when the Urkaos mlp came out Ancient wasn't yet a 'cool' label and the release was available for months and months, now people have jumped on the bandwagon and the labels stuff sells out quickly- even though there was still enough time to pick them up (I got mine a fair time after the label announced the releases). Did anyone give a shit what they put out a year ago... NO. EXACTLY the same with the whole Nidaros/ Terratur stuff- most of it was available for literally ages until it suddenly got popular and people start complaining that they missed out/ 'please repress...' etc.

Sure you can't look at messageboards all of the time and miss out on releases, but I'd rather buy one lp I missed on ebay for a high price that actually gets listened to than buy 10 shitty releases that get one or two spins.
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snt



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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Location: Kazakhstan, Almaty

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
More than the stupid bidders, I think the labels are to blame. People want to release records and can't be arsed with distributing them, trading them, etc + they want to kvlt so they'll just release the smallest amount of copies possible even if it doesn't make any sense moneywise and then the people who either can't afford or are too late to pay 30+€ for 15 minutes of music limited to 14,88 copies will be screwed. The best is when those labels or people from those bands are whining when people make more money than them selling their records on Ebay.

Release more records and make them available, sell more copies of them, screw Ebay.

why should release many copies and try to sell it over the years Exclamation 150-250 copies is just right for these UG albums
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axegrinder



Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 262
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hevosrunkkari wrote:
I dont know who are to blame here but its unfortunate that great band like Dödfödd gets in between in this absurd limitation hocus pocus and ebay mongoloidness.

Anyway, is Demo 10 any good compared to other demos? I hope digital edition comes out soon.


wanna buy the vinyl? here you go:

http://www.theblacktemple.com/ragingbloodlust/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?product=-_Coming_Soon&cart_id=1350059333.355
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Haunt In The Dark



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 878
Location: Trve De Baal

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Elite wrote:
Time for some rambling... Even when the Urkaos mlp came out Ancient wasn't yet a 'cool' label and the release was available for months and months, now people have jumped on the bandwagon and the labels stuff sells out quickly- even though there was still enough time to pick them up (I got mine a fair time after the label announced the releases). Did anyone give a shit what they put out a year ago... NO. EXACTLY the same with the whole Nidaros/ Terratur stuff- most of it was available for literally ages until it suddenly got popular and people start complaining that they missed out/ 'please repress...' etc.


You're splitting hairs. I'm not addressing the label in particular, I'm talking about a stupid way of doing things (and people being hypocrites whenever it comes to kvlting as well.)

The_Elite wrote:
Sure you can't look at messageboards all of the time and miss out on releases, but I'd rather buy one lp I missed on ebay for a high price that actually gets listened to than buy 10 shitty releases that get one or two spins.


Blame the "labels" that release those shitty releases then. Or just don't buy them and let those labels fold on themselves (which is what I do.)

snt wrote:

why should release many copies and try to sell it over the years Exclamation 150-250 copies is just right for these UG albums


Ebay constantly proves you wrong (this might be the first positive thing I've ever said about Ebay.)
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rthdx



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 1311
Location: Korolev, Russia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the main drama is limitation of those Svartrit LPs, right? Aren't these albums still available on CD? If you're so eager to support the band and/or label - go and buy it. If not - then cynically download, I doubt any adequate UG band/label would give a slightest piece of fuck about that. Smile If you're just format jerker and/or stamp-collector - you're buttfucked subhuman anyway and fully deserve your e-bay golden shower! Cool

P.S. Just checked my records, all in all 130+ LPs released by Ancient were ordered through me by local customers... Razz Something is telling me it's just the beginning... Wink
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ravn



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krakentorso wrote:
the hunt has begun. Ancient records vinyl releases on ebay:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/URKAOS-Urkaos-I-LP-Watain-Svartrit-Mare-One-Tail-One-Head-limited-250-/120995002688?pt=B%C3%BCcher_Unterhaltung_Music_CDs&hash=item1c2bdd3940
Laughing


73 usd...haha..what an joke
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Vega360



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 476
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
More than the stupid bidders, I think the labels are to blame. People want to release records and can't be arsed with distributing them, trading them, etc + they want to kvlt so they'll just release the smallest amount of copies possible even if it doesn't make any sense moneywise and then the people who either can't afford or are too late to pay 30+€ for 15 minutes of music limited to 14,88 copies will be screwed. The best is when those labels or people from those bands are whining when people make more money than them selling their records on Ebay.

Release more records and make them available, sell more copies of them, screw Ebay.


This above is wisdom, this is what I've been saying for years. Whoever this person is has my respect, for actually grasping this concept. I'm not by any means attacking the label that put this out, however if this label is one worth caring about he should invest in doing 2nd presses of all this. Especially considering how fast it sold. Again let me stress, I'm not waging a personal attack to this guy.

Everyone might want to sit down here and brace yourself, maybe get a loved one or something to help you through this. I'm gonna bust out some pretty complex concepts.

A Physical Release is music put onto physical format for the purpose of allowing other people (in places that aren't always within your eyesight) to experience said music with the help of a device such as a stereo, record player and apparently in some cases (noise) a floppy disc drive.

A Music Label/Distro/Person selling a lot of copies of it is created to distribute music to people. Their function is to make sure that the people who want to get a hold of said music can do so. That is there responsibility, why they exist and what should determine if they are worth caring about or not.

Black Metal is structurally music. I know it's hard to recognize this because a lot of people like to throw their vaginal discharge around and verbal sperm is how you give meaning to most black metal (unless you can understand the obviously deep and intelligent lyrics) songs. However your verbal cum dumpster is made up of music, because nobody cares about your spoken word ranting about how masons run the world or whatever.

By this logic, and is the hard part. Black Metal = Music and if released = something that IS supposed to Distributed by somebody.

Now for lesson #2

I run a label, and have always felt obligated to make sure people can actually get a hold of my releases without a lot of problems (Should you know someone that is having a lot of problems getting a Winter Solace release they really want, I want to meet them) or having to pay a small fortune for it. One shouldn't have to choose between food and records (however sadly I have met people that have done so, hunger pains fuel the Peste Noire vinyl fund) they want to own.

I know spending the extra money and doing the extra money to trade and do a distro is hard, I've ran one for almost 5 years. But come on, do your fucking job, unless you want people to realize that a shitload of this all sounds the same anyway and they can just go find some recording that sounds similar and pay a shitload less for it. Besides you actually in the long run lose money by not doing a big distro, trading your releases and all that stuff. Unless you're a pussy who doesn't like to gamble. Lets do some math.

You release something, in a run of 100 copies. Production cost is 1500 USD. You can either charge 15 USD for this and hope you sell all the copies. Wholesale them for a discounted price (and thus lose money unless you charge your customers more then 15 USD, thus screwing them over to distribute the music) to others and make SOME of your money back. Or you could trade them and your only out postage, which the other label is also out.

However this where the magic happens. Suddenly instead of selling the thing you just released, you are selling that AND something else. May not seem like much, but if you have a bunch of other things. People will buy those things from you, and then suddenly your chances of making more of your money back actually increase. Unlike a lot of distros, I actually make an effort to talk to most of customers (the ones that will talk anyway) and in doing so I learn what types of bands they like, what they don't like. If for example they want more industrial hate music made in somebodies bathroom, I then go and get more of that music. If they want Mexican black metal, I go make more friends in Mexico. Then they come back and buy more stuff. Even when you are out of releases of your own to sell. Everyone wins, as long as your willing to do work. People get the stuff they want, you get money to press more music (or pay down credit cards, buy drugs, tokusatsu dvds or whatvever) and more music comes into existence. Logically if you want blasphmey CDs and Vinland SS (my bands) tapes, what would you as a customer do. Buy Blapshmey CDs from Yousuke and VSS tapes from me, or buy Blapshmey CDs & VSS tapes from me (if I were selling Blapshmey Cds) and save yourself postage and paypal fees.


For people who may remember before 17 trillion dollars decided to just vanish from the world economy (probably so somebody could buy moonblood LPs the world doesn't even know about) what I said above made a lot more sense and was more common to see distros, labels to trade and music you wanted to buy was a lot easier to get.

Now thanks to people's desire to just have more money (to spend on shit they don't need, usually more music) while doing less work (like having a job) and the invention of short run pressings that has changed. Now it is easier to just make an EP in a run of 100 copies (when you could sell 500-1000 in a couple of years and probably save money on production costs), not trade them and do less work.

Bands are just as much to blame as labels. They screw over the fans of their music by not saying "You know I think more then 100 people might want this on vinyl, because they choose not to listen to CDs" and refuse to grant permission to the label to release there 100 copies no wholesale/no trade/no distribution LPs, if whatever label your dealing with wants to release your music bad enough they will do whatever you want and if they don't you can probably find other labels who'd be more then happy to do whatever you want.

Of course for some bands/labels it is easier to just release 100 Eps/Lps hand-numbered with the person first and last name inscribed on the Xerox inserts (because printing actual jackets is just too much) so they can't ever get rid of it. Then only allow labels they interact with daily and are told every time someone buys one of their releases so they can know exactly who owns it, while watching ebay constantly so when someone decided to list one of them you can have them blacklisted from all the distros in your mafia so that they can never own any of your music ever again. It is easier to do that then actually just meet the demand of the fans of your music.

In summary, if labels & bands actually decided to meet the demand for their music none of this would happen. I guess it's a hard concept to understand though. I said that to someone (who releases have been know to be the subject of similar ebay hijinx/can't be found anywhere) while sitting next to him on his couch and looking right at him. He just shrugged, said he can't do anything about it and looked at me like I was fucking retarded. I feel like I'm talking to a chair here, either way your welcome and this rant will eventually make in onto the WS webpage.
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Demoniarch



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one factor not touched upon, and perhaps it is the most retarded factor of the factors...

...There is those among us that only seek I suspect, these releases that are so limited, and in doing so they figure they have attained some sense of being higher, more evolved, more elite... than those that cannot obtain or aquire same said items.

Personal glorification based on a physical medium. It is a weakness, a frail mindset, for what does set men apart is not their vinyl collections, but usually the patches on their vest... j/k ...but it is all very lame. Wink
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Vega360



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 476
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoniarch wrote:
There is one factor not touched upon, and perhaps it is the most retarded factor of the factors...

...There is those among us that only seek I suspect, these releases that are so limited, and in doing so they figure they have attained some sense of being higher, more evolved, more elite... than those that cannot obtain or aquire same said items.

Personal glorification based on a physical medium. It is a weakness, a frail mindset, for what does set men apart is not their vinyl collections, but usually the patches on their vest... j/k ...but it is all very lame. Wink


I have met people like this. But they don't listen to reason usually. You can only speak to them if you yourself pose in front of your kvlt shit in full blown "Christ Proof Armor" and have more stuff then them which they think they can get by listening to you.
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DTBRex



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember selling this LP (Urkaos) to someone and lo and behold!, this particular photo said to be inside was missing apparently:



I just could not find it, maybe it was never there in the first place? However, said person kept bugging me for this photo. Like, it's a fetish of sorts; something you need badly or else this LP is worth nothing. This was going on for a while, until I have eventually looked for my private copy of this LP, took this photo from there, and sent it off to him. I never noticed this photo in the first place; I could not care less if there's a photo or a poster or wtf else included when all that matters to me is the music, actually.

Well, but that's me and others have different priorities, for all I know. If there's now one guy out there who can finally listen to this LP while looking at this photo (or doing whatever else comes to his mind...), then so be it. People are irrational creatures, by and large. They defy logic and reason more often than not.
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Demoniarch



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea... I've been annoyed with missing articles from a release, I sought out the missing insert from a 7" ...never sent multiple emails though, was fine with a photocopy insert ...and why though ?

What did that insert add to the record ? ...my 200th 7" added to the shelf ??? ...in all honesty nothing, it did little to change my life, so why did I care to begin with if it was there or not.



There is a strange mind set within this circle, collectors, supporters, the black metal horde. Be it having to appear a certain way, having to dress a certain way, having to collect and have every item or article by a specific band, no matter how ridiculous owning 7 color variations of the same release is, somehow it is all justified and accepted... all very strange behaviour.

All I can really chalk this up to is ... far too comfortable of a life without any real issues to concern myself over. When was the last time I starved ? Or was cold ? Or had to seriously fight in a life threatening situation ? ...in Canada, never. ...nor has any of my black metal associated really for that matter.

There is far to great an emphasis on having collectibles, that I agree... and am to a certain point ashamed of due to my own guilt in participation. Embarassed
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Vega360



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoniarch wrote:
Yea... I've been annoyed with missing articles from a release, I sought out the missing insert from a 7" ...never sent multiple emails though, was fine with a photocopy insert ...and why though ?

What did that insert add to the record ? ...my 200th 7" added to the shelf ??? ...in all honesty nothing, it did little to change my life, so why did I care to begin with if it was there or not.



There is a strange mind set within this circle, collectors, supporters, the black metal horde. Be it having to appear a certain way, having to dress a certain way, having to collect and have every item or article by a specific band, no matter how ridiculous owning 7 color variations of the same release is, somehow it is all justified and accepted... all very strange behaviour.

All I can really chalk this up to is ... far too comfortable of a life without any real issues to concern myself over. When was the last time I starved ? Or was cold ? Or had to seriously fight in a life threatening situation ? ...in Canada, never. ...nor has any of my black metal associated really for that matter.

There is far to great an emphasis on having collectibles, that I agree... and am to a certain point ashamed of due to my own guilt in participation. Embarassed


If someone sent me a seven inch that was missing an insert, if I even noticed at all (when I would finally listen to about a month after I got it) that would be a miracle. If I can understand the vocals then I do like to know what the lyrics are, just to try and gain a new perspective or whatever. But not the end of the world. End of the day I just want to listen to music.

But on the other end. When I stocked the new Vanyar tape I had to make a special trip to officemax to buy rubber bands so I could keep the "free download card" that came with the tapes with the tapes. Someone out there would probably file a paypal claim over that shit. I've met labels who will send you replacement tape stickers if they think you got them from somebody who didn't send you said stickers. People who want the "White Paper for White People" edition of a tape (because you just didn't want to waste toner because you forgot to change the paper in your printer) or the one printed on special paper or whatever.

If I didn't do a label so quickly after getting into Underground black metal, and maybe just collected shit for a few years then maybe it'd be different. Most of the time the people I meet who geek out over extra shit are fans that don't run labels. Somehow doing that made me appreciate just the music more.
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Weltering in Blood



Joined: 24 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Elite wrote:
Time for some rambling... Even when the Urkaos mlp came out Ancient wasn't yet a 'cool' label and the release was available for months and months, now people have jumped on the bandwagon and the labels stuff sells out quickly- even though there was still enough time to pick them up (I got mine a fair time after the label announced the releases). Did anyone give a shit what they put out a year ago... NO. EXACTLY the same with the whole Nidaros/ Terratur stuff- most of it was available for literally ages until it suddenly got popular and people start complaining that they missed out/ 'please repress...' etc.

Sure you can't look at messageboards all of the time and miss out on releases, but I'd rather buy one lp I missed on ebay for a high price that actually gets listened to than buy 10 shitty releases that get one or two spins.


I looked through my collection two years ago when we moved and realised I don't even listen to 3/4 of it anymore or hadn't done in years. I sold the vast majority of it. There was a period from about 1993 until about 2001 when I spent nearly my entire pay paket every month on records. Throw in all the records I was getting for free from mates, labels or bands I was in contact with. Trades of old demos and stuff and I'd so much shit it felt like a noose around my neck. The new house had one of those Ikea expida filled to the brim with lps, other shelves were filled with cds and demos, all staring at me. I'm down to about 250 records and I actually listen to them all regularly. All my favourite stuff. Going back hunting down old records I missed and just ones I REALLY want is almost liberating. Sounds like a cliche but that Fight Club line about how your possessions end up owning you is damn true. It got to the point that it was about the collection more than just getting great music that I wanted to listen to all the time. I'm glad I'm so disconnected from the scene thesedays, all the limited to 100 copies stuff that seems to be a weekly occurrence would drive me fucking mental.

sorry, rant over Very Happy
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Wolfram



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
I could not care less if there's a photo or a poster or wtf else included when all that matters to me is the music, actually.


Never thought I'd hear you say that Hendrik Cool
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Ancient Records



Joined: 03 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dont think the limitation can be due to the fact that I/most cant afford to print more copies nor is interested? Money dosent grow on a tree and printing records cost alot of money. And lets not forget studiotimes cost alot of money also. Kult? People can shove their little pathetic "black metal scene" up their ass as far as Im concerned. We arent doing this to think of other people nor to please/serve them. If some people dosent get a copy I dont give a fuck. That is not why these demos are released or recorded. This is Black Metal, not the fucking Red Cross Foundation. And if anyone sells any Ancient Records titles for "big" money on Ebay I can nothing but salute them for ripping off the pockets of some little trendfaggots. All releases on AR are recorded by N and myself so why would I spend all money on a 500LP run so more people can "have" it when I can be able to get out two LPs instead that I myself want and have worked for? Not to mention I would have to put down alot more time serving a bunch of subhumans instead of being able to go forward with my work. People seem to think music gets recorded and manifested for others to "enjoy". Three-two years ago up until these releases we sold nothing and noone cared, we still worked the exact same way as we do today. And we will continue doing so even if 500 or 0 people wants to buy anything.

Plus most of these exist on CD in alot of more copies and have been out for a few years now. Noone have given a fuck about those so why would we print more copies of the LP versions then? Buy the fucking CDs if the LPs are sold out. I promise you its the exact same tones and lyrics on the discs.

Also copies are available from different distros and lets not forget, AFGRUNDSVISIONER.
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