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outlaw-recordings
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 773
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: Limited Vinyl Releases: pros and cons |
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| sarkk wrote: | | omid, correct me if i am wrong, but aren't most of your vinyl releases really limited...? |
Absolutely, and this is a legitimate question and comment, and I will field it as best I can.
Basically, when I started my label (10 years ago), I decided to make records in editions that I knew I could sell, or I as a music fan would want to buy. My theory being that if NOBODY bought a single copy of them that I would be OK stuck with 100 copies of a release, because I believed in it enough and liked the band enough to do it.
Releases like JACKIE STARR (heavy metal phone pranks record), the CANDY ASS single (a all girl band I used to know up there in NYC), those kinds of things were just meant to introduce a band, share things, entertain myself, and for anyone who cared to listen. Some of those releases took me 4 or 5 years to sell just 100 copies!
However, over time, as I realized that there was much more demand for the things I was releasing, I adjusted the numbers to meet the "demand". Simple supply/demand business stuff here, I hate to bring up business theories but in this case they are relevant.
So, for instance, around 2004 or 2005 when I was sort of 'peaking' as far as releases, and when I had an actual distributor I was working with, I started doing runs of like 500 copies of my LP releases. Things like the VICTOR GRIFFIN album, RANCID DECAY, those bands that I thought I could move 500 of them, I made as many as I thought there were people who would want them.
I could have, of course, only done 100 copies of the VICTOR GRIFFIN release too- and they would be MEGA RARE and go for $150 a piece, but as things stand I did 500 of them and they still rarely surface for sale. I hope that's because most people who have that release actually like the album and hold onto it, and I think that's a good thing. I wanted it to be in the hands of people who actually liked and enjoyed the music, not people who bought it because it was limited and it would be worth $100's in a few months.
So, while I have no grounds for ever criticizing anyone for putting out limited stuff, or people for buying it, because as you said- I myself have done limited Outlaw releases, and I don't deny being a record collector.... as I've stepped back a bit from it all I see it a little differently and find some humor in it. Which I guess is what got some people upset, so I am trying to just answer the question and not make jokes here. Just stuck to facts about what I did, no opinions on whatever else.
As I said in my other post, everyone/anyone else can do what they want, and that's fine- I'm not out to cause any problems with my views or argue with people. Hopefully this response to a question about how I did things and the theories behind it won't cause any more anger out there..... I really tried to keep the focus on myself and my side of things so that's about all I can do!
And I hope I answered your question too! haha....
Later!
Omid
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Karan
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 1347
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
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You released that THOR vinyl? I think I read the story from how the band was contacted to how the vinyls were transported!
Yeah, doing things for the passion of it is Ok, although keep in mind that at least recover the investment.
The way you think is good, do it to meet the demand...if times goes by and suddenly one of those releases is now worth hundreds, well, that is something else...but doing it for the sake of getting money hmms...hmm...that really sucks...
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Hellfire Commando
Joined: 23 May 2006
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Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Omid, stupid question but how does it feel when one of your own records are worth more than a 100$ a piece? It must be really weird haha
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outlaw-recordings
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Hellfire Commando wrote: | | Omid, stupid question but how does it feel when one of your own records are worth more than a 100$ a piece? It must be really weird haha |
Well, it's flattering that people are willing to pay that much for it, and of course I'd be lying if I didn't admit makes me wish I could have them all back to sell for that price! I live within my means and keep my overhead low in all areas of my life, but hey, I wouldn't turn down some dough! haha....
A good example of that was the SUNN release we did. I did that release solely because Stephen O'Malley wanted that out on vinyl and he had helped me with a lot of stuff (doing layouts and things for Outlaw) so we agreed to do it. Now, I am being completely honest in saying that at that point SUNN to me was just another doom band, and how was I to know that they were on the cusp of "breaking big".
By the time that release got finished I knew we had under pressed by only doing 200 of them, but the covers were all hand made and it literally would have been impossible to do more than those 200. So that was probably my most valuable release, and my only time of being REALLY off with the supply for the demand.
But yeah, it's flattering. That's about the bottom line. I'm honored that people care.
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The only record I'll trade for is a CELTIC FROST "Morbid Tales" original Noise picture disc! I need one please!!!
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outlaw-recordings
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Karan wrote: | You released that THOR vinyl? I think I read the story from how the band was contacted to how the vinyls were transported!
Yeah, doing things for the passion of it is Ok, although keep in mind that at least recover the investment.
The way you think is good, do it to meet the demand...if times goes by and suddenly one of those releases is now worth hundreds, well, that is something else...but doing it for the sake of getting money hmms...hmm...that really sucks... |
Yes, I did release the THOR vinyl! It was a fun album to put together, Jon Thor is quite a character and personality, cool guy!
I do always recover my investment (eventually), don't worry!
And I think more so than releasing stuff that will maybe be worth money one day, the real question here comes to is it right to exploit the market and release stuff that's super limited to create artificial demand?
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The only record I'll trade for is a CELTIC FROST "Morbid Tales" original Noise picture disc! I need one please!!!
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Professor Black
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Professor Black
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Saevus
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Is that kind of conduct actually something a label can really profit from? With the high cost of vinyl start-up fees (mastering, lacquers etc) compared to getting the actual vinyl pressed, I'd think that even if the release sold out instantly there would be minimal profit. I think it's second parties that tend to profit by buying them up and sitting on them.
I'm all for special editions and limited first pressings, and letting those be worth however much money people want to pay for them, but I don't see the point in limiting a release period and never repressing it. I guess there's some exceptions where even the music itself is a bit of a novelty (live/covers/etc) and only really meant for collectors.
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Sv.
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Hey Omid, do you still have the THOR Mutant LP for sale ? Do I need to mail you at your label e-mail ?
Cheers
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outlaw-recordings
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Professor Black wrote: | | No, it's not right, and it's generally indicative of shitty music. Most people will see through that. |
Well, a lot of bands/labels solve this problem by doing something for both camps, with the "die hards" and things. That way the "collectors" can clamor for those first 100 copies or whatever, then there's 400 or whatever more copies on black vinyl for those who just want to hear the music.
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The only record I'll trade for is a CELTIC FROST "Morbid Tales" original Noise picture disc! I need one please!!!
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outlaw-recordings
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Sv. wrote: | Hey Omid, do you still have the THOR Mutant LP for sale ? Do I need to mail you at your label e-mail ?
Cheers |
I think I have like 3 of them left, so yes, you can email me at the label email!
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The only record I'll trade for is a CELTIC FROST "Morbid Tales" original Noise picture disc! I need one please!!!
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outlaw-recordings
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Saevus wrote: | Is that kind of conduct actually something a label can really profit from? With the high cost of vinyl start-up fees (mastering, lacquers etc) compared to getting the actual vinyl pressed, I'd think that even if the release sold out instantly there would be minimal profit. I think it's second parties that tend to profit by buying them up and sitting on them.
I'm all for special editions and limited first pressings, and letting those be worth however much money people want to pay for them, but I don't see the point in limiting a release period and never repressing it. I guess there's some exceptions where even the music itself is a bit of a novelty (live/covers/etc) and only really meant for collectors. |
All of this is very well said and brings up good points. And again, that's the question, if there's a demand and it's not some limited live LP or whatever, why not let that first "limited pressing" sell out, then do a regular edition to let people hear it? That's when I personally start wondering if it's even about the music any more....
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The only record I'll trade for is a CELTIC FROST "Morbid Tales" original Noise picture disc! I need one please!!!
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Professor Black
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 1966
Location: Evil Nation USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| outlaw-recordings wrote: | | Professor Black wrote: | | No, it's not right, and it's generally indicative of shitty music. Most people will see through that. |
Well, a lot of bands/labels solve this problem by doing something for both camps, with the "die hards" and things. That way the "collectors" can clamor for those first 100 copies or whatever, then there's 400 or whatever more copies on black vinyl for those who just want to hear the music. |
I was answering your question about using limitation as a selling point. Like when unknown bands promote their demos as "limited to 43 copies".
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karunguni
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DESECRATOR777
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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Location: satan island, ny
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Honestly some releases should be limited because the audience is smaller for some releases. Not all, but I think for example something like The Victor griffin lp is something that would sell consistently due to All he is connected to band wise aside from making a kick ass solo lp. and then we can say something like the Wages of sin lp or Dwarr lp's have a smaller audience because of the "quirky ness" for lack of a better word. I personally love strange and amateurish metal sometimes more then the tight in the pocket stuff depending on moods. I hate that its become a rat race to find stuff you really like without spending money you don't have. i believe lp's should go to the highest admirer , not the highest bidder. and the fact that internet can make something cool and cult in lighting speed doesn't help the fans that are REALLY INTO MUSIC FIRST AND FOREMOST then taking digital pictures from mama's attic while applying zit remedies pal.
all i got to say is NORTHERN LIGHTS will be a hightlight!!! |
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