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Cursed Emperor



Joined: 30 May 2011
Posts: 657

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eternal Soul wrote:
Quote:
what claimed to be the most anti-commercial music in the first place


Don't think so or you need to come up with some quotations. At the end of the day Venom/Mercyful Fate were making tours, were interviewed in TV shows. Euronymous ran a shop and wanted to conquer the world and so on...

Bands such as Venom or Mercyful Fate can never be compared to the kind of Black Metal that quote is about. Venom was all about money and having a successful career, while in Norway you had the anti-commercial thing going on. Yes, Euronymous had a shop, he had to have something to get some money in, didn't he? I can't imagine his main income came from selling Black Metal records. Take a look at all those picture of him in his shop, it was full of records that have nothing to do with what was going on in Norway. And I do think, you shouldn't see the whole conquering the world thing in the same way as how bands like Venom/Mercyful Fate tried to conquer the world.
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Eternal Soul



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cursed Emperor wrote:
And I do think, you shouldn't see the whole conquering the world thing in the same way as how bands like Venom/Mercyful Fate tried to conquer the world.


Of course. I was just trying to find examples. That just wasn't ''the most anticommercial music'' in the first place. Haunt in the dark sounds like a kid anyway. Why bother?
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NK7
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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Location: Beograd, Srbija

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADB wrote:
Mikael wrote:
da666 wrote:
But ideally wouldn't we all want to be able to do something we are passionate about AS a full time job??


This is quite OT, but I don't think this is always the case. When I was younger, I worked with music for living, 6 days a week, long hours and when I got home, the last thing on my mind was to listen music or make some of my own. Eventually quit the job, got a "normal job" and got the interest towards music back.


Maybe music isn't your life passion then, it's not for most musicians (I'm talking about everyone who plays a bit of guitar here and there as well as proffessional musicians). Being a full time musician isn't for everyone, or even the vast majority of people

Even what you call "a life passion" can (and most probably will) turn into a pain in the ass the day it becomes a regular job with increasing obligations, annoying people to deal with, more or less regular daily schedules etc . A hobby is only cool until it remains a hobby.
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GoldenBull



Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Isten 6:
Euronymous: "You are mentioning some topics which have been subjects of intense thinking here. There is obviously an antagonism between being 'underground' in the common sense of the word, and the original black metal ideas. If you start to look at how black metal bands were in the ancient days, such as Venom, Mercyful Fate, Hellhammer, Bathory, Destruction, Sodom, etc., you see that they had nothing to do with what is called 'underground'. They were signed to big labels, they earned well-deserved money and were NOT submitted to the hardcore-laws which are ruling the 'underground' today. These laws say that you are not allowed to play death or black metal (!) if you don't: (1) hate money and refuse to earn anything on what you've paid enormous amounts of blood, sweat, money and time for. (2) Are 'openminded' and have lots of 'attitudes', like being vegetarian, being into peace and love (Fuck off! War and Sodomy!), singing about pollution and other society lyrics or other things that are approved by the moral police (HC pigs). (3) You must absolutely not think that you ARE anything. You must creep for your fans ('Oh, do you really like us? Thank you', etc.), you must use most of your life answering thousands of letters or you are being called a ripoff, nobody of course thinks about the fact that it costs a band maybe $25 EACH day just for postage! These people obviously have never tried living on their own and feeling the PAIN of not being able to EAT because you use all your money on postage. "There are other moral laws too but I get too angry when thinking about this. The black metal bands of ancient times didn't have to think about any of these shitty things, they could go for being BIG, having a huge stage show and earning big money. And nothing was wrong with that. Now, WE have been servants of the 'underground' for 8 years. Where do we stand today? We have NO money, sometimes not enough to eat. Our equipment is fucked up, shit, or non-existent. We don't have proper places to live. This would be no problem if it had been a GAIN for the TRUE SCENE, but take a look at which people we have been slaves for: the underground today consists of short-haired children or trendies with white clothes and jogging suits, HC-moral-police-pigs, and a VERY small percentage of TRUE people. "All these 'underground' rules look great at first sight - the music becomes a protest towards the commercial music industry. This is good of course. But on the other hand - they KILL the bands. After 8 years of being broke, I'm starting to become quite fed up. Why shouldn't I live on the music? Basically I have the choice between two things - staying 'underground' and slowly taking the life of the band - in the end I'd have to quit and get myself a job, the band/label is a full-time job so I couldn't do both. The other thing is to say FUCK OFF to most of the 'underground' principles and start to EARN MONEY. Then, I'd be able to make more music with the band, and release tons of great records with great bands. This is of course a much better gain for the true scene. This is why I've now decided to do things a little bigger. Still I hate to see big distributors getting their hands on the records, but I simply don't have a choice. I've never wanted to expose this music to trend people, but I realise that I'm dependent on sucking money from them in order to make a decent living. And I have NO bad feelings about taking the money of trendies. This would also help the bands getting the money they deserve, maybe a few of them can even quit their jobs and start living on the music." "Of course there are limits, I HATE to see Earache bands with videos on MTV, and I was DISGUSTED to see Entombed playing a playback show for discokids on a disco show on Swedish TV. These people shall FEAR this music. We must return to the old days of Venom and the other ancient ones. They were big, but they were NOT commercial! Their music is still ten times more gruesome than all the Morrisound/Sunlight trend recordings of today. Another view - if we don't do DSP much bigger, someone else will make a black metal label which will start selling good, and what happens then? We sit here, broke and without bands. That shall not happen. Everything may very well be big, but the TRUE ONES must control it. "

Sorry for the long post. The rest of the interview (which is great) is at http://www.angelfire.com/ut/FromTheDarkPast/interview12.html


Last edited by GoldenBull on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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Vega360



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 479
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoldenBull wrote:
From Isten 6:
Euronymous: "You are mentioning some topics which have been subjects of intense thinking here. There is obviously an antagonism between being 'underground' in the common sense of the word, and the original black metal ideas. If you start to look at how black metal bands were in the ancient days, such as Venom, Mercyful Fate, Hellhammer, Bathory, Destruction, Sodom, etc., you see that they had nothing to do with what is called 'underground'. They were signed to big labels, they earned well-deserved money and were NOT submitted to the hardcore-laws which are ruling the 'underground' today. These laws say that you are not allowed to play death or black metal (!) if you don't: (1) hate money and refuse to earn anything on what you've paid enormous amounts of blood, sweat, money and time for. (2) Are 'openminded' and have lots of 'attitudes', like being vegetarian, being into peace and love (Fuck off! War and Sodomy!), singing about pollution and other society lyrics or other things that are approved by the moral police (HC pigs). (3) You must absolutely not think that you ARE anything. You must creep for your fans ('Oh, do you really like us? Thank you', etc.), you must use most of your life answering thousands of letters or you are being called a ripoff, nobody of course thinks about the fact that it costs a band maybe $25 EACH day just for postage! These people obviously have never tried living on their own and feeling the PAIN of not being able to EAT because you use all your money on postage. "There are other moral laws too but I get too angry when thinking about this. The black metal bands of ancient times didn't have to think about any of these shitty things, they could go for being BIG, having a huge stage show and earning big money. And nothing was wrong with that. Now, WE have been servants of the 'underground' for 8 years. Where do we stand today? We have NO money, sometimes not enough to eat. Our equipment is fucked up, shit, or non-existent. We don't have proper places to live. This would be no problem if it had been a GAIN for the TRUE SCENE, but take a look at which people we have been slaves for: the underground today consists of short-haired children or trendies with white clothes and jogging suits, HC-moral-police-pigs, and a VERY small percentage of TRUE people. "All these 'underground' rules look great at first sight - the music becomes a protest towards the commercial music industry. This is good of course. But on the other hand - they KILL the bands. After 8 years of being broke, I'm starting to become quite fed up. Why shouldn't I live on the music? Basically I have the choice between two things - staying 'underground' and slowly taking the life of the band - in the end I'd have to quit and get myself a job, the band/label is a full-time job so I couldn't do both. The other thing is to say FUCK OFF to most of the 'underground' principles and start to EARN MONEY. Then, I'd be able to make more music with the band, and release tons of great records with great bands. This is of course a much better gain for the true scene. This is why I've now decided to do things a little bigger. Still I hate to see big distributors getting their hands on the records, but I simply don't have a choice. I've never wanted to expose this music to trend people, but I realise that I'm dependent on sucking money from them in order to make a decent living. And I have NO bad feelings about taking the money of trendies. This would also help the bands getting the money they deserve, maybe a few of them can even quit their jobs and start living on the music." "Of course there are limits, I HATE to see Earache bands with videos on MTV, and I was DISGUSTED to see Entombed playing a playback show for discokids on a disco show on Swedish TV. These people shall FEAR this music. We must return to the old days of Venom and the other ancient ones. They were big, but they were NOT commercial! Their music is still ten times more gruesome than all the Morrisound/Sunlight trend recordings of today. Another view - if we don't do DSP much bigger, someone else will make a black metal label which will start selling good, and what happens then? We sit here, broke and without bands. That shall not happen. Everything may very well be big, but the TRUE ONES must control it. "

Sorry for the long post. The rest of the interview (which is great) is at http://www.angelfire.com/ut/FromTheDarkPast/interview12.html


......It made sense at some point. Shocked
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GoldenBull



Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, well I figured the most relevant part of the interview to this particular thread is:

"The black metal bands of ancient times didn't have to think about any of these shitty things, they could go for being BIG, having a huge stage show and earning big money. And nothing was wrong with that. Now, WE have been servants of the 'underground' for 8 years. Where do we stand today? We have NO money, sometimes not enough to eat. Our equipment is fucked up, shit, or non-existent. We don't have proper places to live."
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Vega360



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoldenBull wrote:
Haha, well I figured the most relevant part of the interview to this particular thread is:

"The black metal bands of ancient times didn't have to think about any of these shitty things, they could go for being BIG, having a huge stage show and earning big money. And nothing was wrong with that. Now, WE have been servants of the 'underground' for 8 years. Where do we stand today? We have NO money, sometimes not enough to eat. Our equipment is fucked up, shit, or non-existent. We don't have proper places to live."


He's is right. Sometimes you gotta do whatever you gotta do to keep your music in existence. I used to think differently, think everyone had to follow the "rules" he talked about etc.

When this particular interview was made, I was 2 years old. I got into underground music in the late zero's decade.

A world of collector's items made by phantom of the opera like peoples is all some of us know.... Sad

Thank you for posting this.
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vinhas



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 540

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just a matter os curiosity: are all you guys (NWN, Darker than Black, Dark Descent, Iron Bonehead, Dark Adversary, etc) a one-man business?
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DTBRex



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vinhas wrote:
just a matter os curiosity: are all you guys (NWN, Darker than Black, Dark Descent, Iron Bonehead, Dark Adversary, etc) a one-man business?


As far as I am concerned: Yes, legally an one-man business.
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iron tyrant



Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 2398
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
vinhas wrote:
just a matter os curiosity: are all you guys (NWN, Darker than Black, Dark Descent, Iron Bonehead, Dark Adversary, etc) a one-man business?


As far as I am concerned: Yes, legally an one-man business.


Count me in the club.
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da666



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 1739

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vinhas wrote:
just a matter os curiosity: are all you guys (NWN, Darker than Black, Dark Descent, Iron Bonehead, Dark Adversary, etc) a one-man business?


I still am
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darkdescentrecords



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am one.
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Demoniarch



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is great dealing with labels that frequent this forum, those labels are ideally my first choice locations to do business with.

They are here online, interacting and answering inquiries. To wait for a response from one of them, is generally never a problem as they all seem more than eager to provide information.

The labels that tend to have something else to do, and you never know if they drowned in the ocean or are hand making each record themselves, in my opinion cannot pretend that matters of email are of ill importance, sure hand letters worked twenty years ago, but it is not twenty years ago anymore, everyone has the world at their fingertips usually right at home in the living room.

A business really on the ball has their system set up to automatically give you a reply, hands off ...or mass answer emails to remedy anxiety of the collector fever.


...or a HUGE bottle of tylenol to remedy the problem that will never cease, the almighty 2nd day inquiry. Razz
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ADB



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vinhas wrote:
just a matter os curiosity: are all you guys (NWN, Darker than Black, Dark Descent, Iron Bonehead, Dark Adversary, etc) a one-man business?


Don't run a label, but my music stuff (sound engineering and composition mostly) has all the appropriate business documents behind it
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FEP



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuiSlayer wrote:
Zyklon-B ripped me off once. Deathrune (Death To Mankind in those days...) almost ripped me off another time. And I'm very happy to say that these 2, alongside one Portuguese distro, are the only cases where I had trouble in almost 20 years of ordering from Underground labels...

I understand that people have a job and a life besides the label, but sometimes things are very annoying... An email doesn't take too long to answer...


Diz me l ento onde que te devo alguma coisa? Se calhar o melhor resolver isto cara a cara no? Wink

On what it concerns to communication, there is a hard spine on every UG label, specially when its under a single person work, that beside his work and dailly affairs, still have to handle the label, be it for own profit or be it for his own pleasure.

The fact is that many of the label owners does not sit all day in front of a computer as many of the people here, complaining about this and about that instead of re-sending an e-mail so their issues get cleared, this is far the best way to solve things, and usually on my side it works and I do appreciate when people remind me, even if it should be me to remind of any pending issue, but as said before and on other replies to this post, when it come to a single man, things arent that easy as they seem, you may have a day without a single e-mail and in one hour you can have 50 mails to answer, work that you will do in the end of the day, beside all other affairs you may have or not, i.e.: I must drive 15min in a secondary road to reach the nearest post office, and 50kms to reach the nearest GLS post, this is done once a week and it works perfecttly, however and beside this I do not sit in front of the computer all the night or all days by the end, because as any of you, we label owners also have life, family and other things to do beside this.

Maybe if Internet went off for good, cataloges and orders via letter/post would calm dawn those who so much complain about this and that, or maybe you would commit suicide because of the slowness of the ordering process and hand writting letters..

Much more could be said, but waisting time? Its not for me...

Use a thing called e-mail, and things will get cleared for sure.
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