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Discussion: Labels, bands, hype, and ebay prices
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Shiru



Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 3320
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scentofdeath wrote:
This record smuggling will go on for as long as there's a buyer.

You also have to look at the reasons labels put out records.
Most people press vinyl because they want that album on vinyl. At the same time, most of them can't afford to press a whole flood of records so they play it safe and make just enough to get them that album on vinyl, for their own collection. It's not fun having a shit load of dead stock in a bedroom operation. So, that album ends up in a small limited run, and god forbid in a combination of colors. This is one of the sources for this "issue".

If the original post questions the morality of things, there is no such thing. At the end of the day, everyone needs to make a buck.
There's a few exceptions, but aren't they in a constant struggle because of that? See Hydra Head. Even they had to pull out their collections on ebay to get their asses out of trouble, for what they thought was fair and moral towards art and the artist and the fans. Which is fine.

In the end, I think the biggest problem is the buyer. There are too many schmucks out there that gotta have every color, or that buy the extra copy(ies) to "jew it out" later (Side note: Betcha' those that bought the extra profit copy of Umskiptar aren't laughing now, are they?). It's probably why some labels make 3, 4, 5 color options. They'll have a guaranteed number of sales due to the above mentioned schmucks.

Obviously the labels that practice fast profiteering from their own releases are pitiful scum, because what's that gonna do for them? An extra hundred bucks and a big "shit face cunt" tag to go with it.

hmm exactly my thoughs... lately i often realized that i skipped buying some records for those reasons, or even worse i despise bootlegs and bootlegging(expect very few cases), but sometimes i think it would be cool if someone bootleg some of those releases... Wink
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Heirophant.326.AV



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good points raised so far, but I cant help but feel that it should not have to be a "lolly scramble" to get a copy of an album. It's getting to the point where unless you are constantly watching out for new releases you have to endure the shysterism described in this thread. I'm sure I'm not the only person reading this who occasionally has a year where they dont buy many new releases for various reasons (real life getting in the way) but puts things on a mental "will get around to checking out" list. Good for labels in that they dont have to warehouse stock, but it defeats the purpose of investing in a release and feeds the cycle of "gotta get it RIGHT NOW" bullshit collectorism if you cant keep your investment in print for even just a few years.
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DTBRex



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Discussion: Labels, bands, hype, and ebay prices Reply with quote

BBR wrote:

This phenomenon can be introduced in part by limited pressings (e.g. 250).


Well, everything else you said aside: But 250 LP's of a record that's never to be distributed beyond the "underground" (aka NWN-forum Wink) is quite sufficient in my book.

For example, it is as Ancient Records has explained it in some other thread: The Svartrit-CD's, each one limited to 500 copies, have been available since 2010 and not sold out thus far. So, from a purely economic point of view, it's a prudent decision to release only half of that number as LP subsequently.

Ancient Records has not "hyped" anything, anywhere. And how could he expect the Svartrit-LP's going that fast if the CD's were sitting at his home for years? No idea how that came about, but it can surely not be "blamed" on the label in this case...
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HotBlack



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I ran a label, I'd press albums in small or economical batches and keep repressing them every time they sold out, each press identical... Getting the music out to those who want it. If a band wanted to do something special and limited for a specific release, sure if that's the bands wish... But I would always make regular release available to customers. This seems like the service a label is supposed to provide to bands and their fans... releasing albums ang keeping them available for as long as the label stays operating. Is this idea too naive?
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Mikael



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HotBlack wrote:
If I ran a label, I'd press albums in small or economical batches and keep repressing them every time they sold out, each press identical... Getting the music out to those who want it. If a band wanted to do something special and limited for a specific release, sure if that's the bands wish... But I would always make regular release available to customers. This seems like the service a label is supposed to provide to bands and their fans... releasing albums ang keeping them available for as long as the label stays operating. Is this idea too naive?


Well, I'd prefer to release new stuff instead of re-pressing older releases all the time. Bigger labels can keep older releases on print, but for a small ug-label it's usually too much if you want to keep releasing new albums too.
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Valgrinder



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikael wrote:
HotBlack wrote:
If I ran a label, I'd press albums in small or economical batches and keep repressing them every time they sold out, each press identical... Getting the music out to those who want it. If a band wanted to do something special and limited for a specific release, sure if that's the bands wish... But I would always make regular release available to customers. This seems like the service a label is supposed to provide to bands and their fans... releasing albums ang keeping them available for as long as the label stays operating. Is this idea too naive?


Well, I'd prefer to release new stuff instead of re-pressing older releases all the time. Bigger labels can keep older releases on print, but for a small ug-label it's usually too much if you want to keep releasing new albums too.


Yeah. Think that 500-1000 copies of new cd is wise pressing. If its less, then price per cd can go too high. But after that 500-1000 copies of that new release is sold out (maybe in year or two) but there is still demand once in awhile for copies, then pressing 500 copies is too much. You can press it, but since its already couple years old release, then demand isnt so big and it can take forever to sold.
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HotBlack



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikael wrote:
Well, I'd prefer to release new stuff instead of re-pressing older releases all the time...

Valgrinder wrote:
Yeah. Think that 500-1000 copies of new cd is wise pressing. If its less, then price per cd can go too high...


Of course, if you ran a label you'd be releasing new stuff as well... is it really that costly to press CDs in runs of a 100 or 200?... Surely if you struck up a deal with a pressing plant to do all your business with them you could work something out to make something like this work... the only obv. problem with my logic is you could run out of room pretty quickly if you keep stock of everything you ever released available...
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Orpheus



Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the problem is the market itself; the consumer. If there wasnt a segment of the market willing to spend $100 for an LP released within the last 5 years then none of this would be happening. Then you get "speculators" and the super collectors that "need" a copy of every edition, all of which combine to screw over the "average" music fan.
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DSS



Joined: 02 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

funeralfog666 wrote:
scentofdeath wrote:
Good thread by the way, but I'm still waiting for it to go nuts with finger pointing Very Happy


Mgla selling copies of groza lp for 50 euro recently, I emailed about one then got that price and did not respond. Laughing


50 Euro seems a bit steep but I can truly understand why the slightly higher price. If it was 20 Euro then majority of the people would buy it for a quick profit. At 50 Euro most of those people are probably thinking there is very little or no profit to be made.

I have sold some "rare" items for a reasonable price and then the person would flip it on eBay for 10 times the price. What can I do about it? Nothing. Once the item is in their hands they are free to do as they wish. I'm not a clairvoyant and can't tell why the person is buying something. I could be a cry baby and start a thread mentioning the buyer's name, address, etc. and tell everyone not to sell to them, etc. But it is what it is. Most of the time I simply list it on eBay (started selling on Discogs recently as well) and let people fight over it with their bids.
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The_Elite



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with the band getting money selling their releases for inflated prices. I can remember the guy from Agalloch getting shit for selling some rare Agalloch stuff on ebay as if in some way it was ok for others to profit from his band but if he wants money from what he's put his time and effort into it's somehow not ok...

I'm as guilty as anyone of buying an extra copy of something to sell it or trade it. That's just the way things are nowadays, and an extra copy of one sold out release helps me to get the other sold out release I was too slow to get...

Labels are sometimes shady in their practices, but it's nothing new- it's just vinyl has replaced cash as currency.

Keeping stuff in print and only releasing standard versions of lps/cassettes would a step in the right direction. But while people want to collect there will always be a market.

Never stop the madness. Laughing
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Orpheus



Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This phenomenon happens in the world of occult/rare books too. Just type in "Kenneth Grant" into ebay, or sign up for Caduceus' newsletter and youll see what I mean. If you have a big enough bankroll you can actually make a decent living pulling this shit.
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Shiru



Joined: 04 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

btw always very enjoyed to see how ebayers bough extra copies, and then release wasnt becoming hot cake;)
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navght



Joined: 29 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Semi off topic: If you buy more than one color of any record that ends up collecting dust instead of buying one to listen to you are pseudo fagget and deserve your record collection burned.
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DSS



Joined: 02 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

navght wrote:
Semi off topic: If you buy more than one color of any record that ends up collecting dust instead of buying one to listen to you are pseudo fagget and deserve your record collection burned.


Not 100% true imho. Based on present situation, yes. Majority of the people buying multiple copies of one album do it to show off what they have. But those people usually will buy everything by ever band. Buying multiple copies of your favorite band, because you are a fan, is different. I have multiple copies of the same release by Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Sodom, Slayer, Running Wild, King Diamond and Mercyful Fate and a few others. Those are my favorite bands from my teenage years and they survived the test of time because I still listen to them today. Do I play every version of every multiple release that I have? No. I usually pull the record out randomly and put it on so eventually all of them will get played.

And keep in mind that some of us have been buying records before it became a "trend". I still enjoy going to used music stores and garage sales and finding something worth buying. Not all of us search the internet to find that 'rare and oop' item or be the first one to pre-order that special limited edition on colorsplattermarbaled wax with stickers and patches.
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AIRRecords



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think eBay prices on non-ebay sites are bullshit. Labels sjhould just keep to as true pricing or as simple pricing as possible; i'm not going to pay $100 for an LP from ANY band, no matter how good condition or old or kvlt the release is.
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