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Come Lupi tra le Pecore: History & Ideology of NSBM
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astralvesl



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just stop
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NK7
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

satanic ritual abuse wrote:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Nazi

"Nazi, abbreviation of German pronunciation of Nationalsozialist"

O.K. then, I guess we all have different sources, probably some writers try to coin their own meaning.

No, nazism IS the short form for "national socialism", despite delusional clueless NWN revisionists thinking otherwise.
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eighthplague
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

astralvesl wrote:
just stop


Indeed. I think the thread's been derailed by NK7's hysterics enough, no need to keep it going.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual, whenever someone comes up with clear and valid points (not even OT, since it's subject of the book that is being discussed here) that you're not able to refute it's "thread derailment", "trolling", "why don't the mods ban him" etc. Why don't you try to come up with an answer to my question that is better structured than shut up/read the book instead?
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satanic ritual abuse



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

astralvesl wrote:

See I would argue that the importance of violence is not actually a true tenant of national socialism but rather a conceivable byproduct. In reference to Strasser, I've read about him enough times but never anything he's actually written, what's worthwhile? I'm a big fan of Heidegger's thoughts on the matter, arguably formulated best in his 1933-35 lectures, if we're talking about impressions of NS during Nazism. Are you aware of Rudolf Jung? His Der Nationale Sozialismus... is pretty solid for detailing the rise of NS ideas in Austria pre-nazism. By the way, does anyone know if that was ever translated into english? My German is nowhere near as good as it should be so I doubt I understood it as well as I should have.


I only know his early work, Freiheit und Brot, as well as
Hammer und Schwert, it was reprinted in the eighties. I referred to him because he is an example of the left branch of NS, in order to admit that there are different ideals of NS (Ernst Jünger has a truly proletarian approach too).
Speaking of Heidegger is very interesting because I think fundamental ontology means quite the opposite of the real materialistic Third Reich. But that's a common problem between philosophy and politics, way too often an ideal/agenda gets corrupted and modified. End even if the idea of NS was just a peacy, völkisch, atavistic moment in history, the political practice was materialistic, purposive (see the connection to the industrial complex) and arbitrarily violent. But the same goes for the socialism/communism.


Last edited by satanic ritual abuse on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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LuisOrozco



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interesting to purchase this, and just becuase i want to read about South American Bands, that will be ovius Brazillian 80's scene (you know, Holocausto and bla, bla, bla.)
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nileppez



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is, a term like "national socialism" with its historical impact, in addition to being already made of two often loosely interpreted terms, is obviously going to be adapted by wide array of movements, different in critical aspects from each other. Looking at the term itself it seems to only imply socialist economic policy and good of nation as priority, but infact the meaning is much narrower. The only correct association would be along the lines of what NK7 mentioned.
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Xeniteia



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

satanic ritual abuse wrote:
End even if the idea of NS was just a peacy, völkisch, atavistic moment in history, the political practice was materialistic, purposive (see the connection to the industrial complex) and arbitrarily violent. But the same goes for the socialism/communism.


On a side note, I'm just finishing Adam Tooze's economic history of the Third Reich -The Wages of Destruction- and the connexion of the nazi state to the industrial complex is clearly explained in this book, which may be avalaible in several languages, at least English and French.
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DTBRex



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
Why don't you try to come up with an answer to my question that is better structured than shut up/read the book instead?


I don't see you asking any question, are you? If what you are talking about does concern the point of how NS-ideology and Black Metal-music can be combined, then you have a moot point anyway.

You keep talking of "drug-abuse" and "homosexuality" in Black Metal as if any of that would be common-place in this scene. There are a few faggots in Norway, so what? Ernst Röhm himself was gay, yet nobody would say the SA was nothing but a bunch of fags and the NSDAP quietly tolerated homosexuals by and large.

Can you come up with any example of a NSBM-band promoting "drug-abuse" and "Satanism"? Go ahead, share your insights with us! Laughing

Last but not least, Black Metal is nothing but a medium, just like any other sort of music. NS has been espoused by artists from almost any music genre there is. I don't see why and how Black Metal ought to be an exception to that rule.
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astralvesl



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

satanic ritual abuse wrote:

Speaking of Heidegger is very interesting because I think fundamental ontology means quite the opposite of the real materialistic Third Reich. But that's a common problem between philosophy and politics, way too often an ideal/agenda gets corrupted and modified. End even if the idea of NS was just a peacy, völkisch, atavistic moment in history, the political practice was materialistic, purposive (see the connection to the industrial complex) and arbitrarily violent. But the same goes for the socialism/communism.


Check this out: http://philosophy.cua.edu/lectures/2011lectureseries.cfm; many are good and to the point but Richard Polt's talks about the particular lectures I mentioned the most. The abstracts for each presentation can be found here: http://philosophy.cua.edu/lectures/Fall2011LectureAbstracts.cfm.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
the NSDAP quietly tolerated homosexuals by and large.

Laughing LOL I can't believe I'm even discussing this with someone who supposedly is NS. Homosexuality was a crime in the penal code of the Third Reich and certainly not tolerated by any mean: www.historylearningsite.co.uk/homosexuals_nazi_germany.htm (clearly this is "hollywood fiction/hearsay/wikipedia crap" isnt it). You're obviously clueless about the history of your own country -then again not much can expected from someone who seems to look upon a book on bm as the Holy Grail of modern literature.


DTBRetardo wrote:
Can you come up with any example of a NSBM-band promoting "drug-abuse" and "Satanism"?

Satanic Warmaster
Kohort
Nokturnal Mortum
Burzum

were/are/claimed to be into satanic crap at some point and/or adopted satanic gimmick/imagery in their records. As for the drug thing, you cant possibly be that stupid. It's no secret bm is no straight-edge environment, whoever has been to a show knows dope/coke/alcohol abuse is the rule rather than the exception there on both bands and fans side.


DBTRetardo wrote:
Last but not least, Black Metal is nothing but a medium, just like any other sort of music. NS has been espoused by artists from almost any music genre there is. I don't see why and how Black Metal ought to be an exception to that rule.

I'll take a wild guess, probably because the values commonly referred to (and advocated by) bm are everything but NS-oriented. Reggae is a medium too yet it's hardly the kind of music one would choose to spread pro-white propaganda. On a strict musical plan there are some good bands in the subgenre but their/your views are nothing but a confused mess of irreconcilable pseudo-philosophical garbage with little to no rational/logical value whatsoever.
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DTBRex



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
I am an obnoxious troll who deliberately misreads other peoples' postings.


That you are not embarassed by your own clownery remains a mystery. You do misread on purpose, do you?

I was writing:

Quote:
Ernst Röhm himself was gay, yet nobody would say the SA was nothing but a bunch of fags and the NSDAP quietly tolerated homosexuals by and large.


You just take the last part of what I write, twist it out of context, and pretend I said the NSDAP tolerated homosexuality. How can you be that stupid? Rolling Eyes

As for the rest of your "arguments"... there's really no need to comment any further, since you do not know what the hell you are even talking about. Burzum, Satanic Warmaster, Kohort, Nokturnal Mortum = NSBM?

Maybe in that basement you do come from, but not anywhere else.
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AmaLurra



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
NK7 wrote:
I am an obnoxious troll who deliberately misreads other peoples' postings.


That you are not embarassed by your own clownery remains a mystery. You do misread on purpose, do you?

I was writing:

Quote:
Ernst Röhm himself was gay, yet nobody would say the SA was nothing but a bunch of fags and the NSDAP quietly tolerated homosexuals by and large.


Nokturnal Mortum = NSBM?

Maybe in that basement you do come from, but not anywhere else.


I always perceived them as watered-down NSBM. Did they not once associate themselves with the ideal but as they got more well-known try to distance themselves from the viewpoint?
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NK7
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So SW, NM and those other bands aren't NSBM anymore? Just one more chapter in the sad history of NWN-twats' revisionism.

You're actually right about the first part though, I did misinterpret accidentally what you wrote. Still the point stands, bm clearly tolerates homosexuality, NS does not. You can safely show up at a bm gig dressed like that blonde poofter in the pic and nobody would even notice, try doing that at a RAC festival.

DTBRex wrote:
As for the rest of your "arguments"... there's really no need to comment any further, since I couldn't make a valid point if my life depended on it and I'm much better off dodging all questions I can't answer

Fixed for accuracy.
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hate is the law



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would read in english
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