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signed "physical" contracts or verbal agreements?
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Haunt In The Dark



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 919
Location: Trve De Baal

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If, as Ole does, you deal with people you know and trust (i.e: friends), you more than likely not going to need a written contract because both Ole and the bands know they will deliver and I believe the intent behind working together is different from a label wanting to put out a release for some bands they've never even met (and therefore the "need" for a written contract.)

I don't find any interest in releasing music or working for people I've never
ever met or shared anything with. I'm also not interested in letting someone I don't know handle the release and distribution of MY music the way they want because as you said, shit can happen. But if you deal with people you know, you won't have to worry about that (nor need written contracts.)
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Professor Black



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
If, as Ole does, you deal with people you know and trust (i.e: friends), you more than likely not going to need a written contract because both Ole and the bands know they will deliver and I believe the intent behind working together is different from a label wanting to put out a release for some bands they've never even met (and therefore the "need" for a written contract.)


Sure, but it can cut both ways. It's quite awkward to have to hold a friend accountable for fucking up.
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Stygian Shadows 'zine



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 1162
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I speak about my activity as a label, I never had written contracts with bands, be it Sabbat or Denial Of God or any hungarian black/death metal bands from the last decade.
As Stygian Shadows is a very small label, I never felt would need written stuffs controlled by lawyers. In my opinion the given word must be enough from both sides.
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little_raven



Joined: 17 Aug 2011
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

throneofmight wrote:
13 wrote:
I only deal with people I know, so mutual trust and respect is key. Nothing signed, ever.


Agree 100%.


Make it 200%
If you can't trust them, don't 'sign' them.
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Fallen_Empire
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything between bands and myself has been verbal. I don't see contracts as necessary, especially not contracts that say 'I need 3 albums in 3 years'. That sort of shit just isn't good for anybody in my opinion.
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God Slayer



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in a hardcore band in the early 00's and our label required a professional contract. All the metal releases by any bands I've been in have simply been verbal. And wouldn't you know it; the only problem we ever had with a label was with the one requiring a contract.
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ADB



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horses for courses in my opinion, for some things a contract is required and other times it's not really needed, depends on circumstance.

Almost all label correspondence these days is by e-mail anyway, as long as you keep your band/label related e-mails (which I do) you've got a record of the conversation, which is basically like a contract (sometimes better, as you've actually got a record of the negotiating behind the deal itself).
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darkdescentrecords



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ADB said.

I have found that some guys who have been around the block a bit tend to want contracts due to being burned once or twice before so i don't mind a written agreement. It puts them at ease and I am going to follow through anyway so it isn't a problem. As others have stated some things require contracts and somethings don't.
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Ihslahm



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the band end of things I would say I prefer a very simple contract without any complicated legalese shit. I have done this both written or by email, but also have had done releases with people I am friends with and generally trust only verbally as well. with verbal agreements I have had problems because of later disagreements of what was agreed to since the agreement was literally only done verbally. Over years people memories never accurately recall 'facts' and some written words are a useful reminder. Even if you don't care about a contract I would still advise keeping your old emails around to jog your memory. If you prefer an actual verbal contract and a handshake, be sure to bootleg the conversation so you can release a cult tape release of the agreement in the future.
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Kojiri



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norseman wrote:
I always have my team of lawyers work through and cosign any correspondence I ever have with any label.


If anyone can find that gif of Mr Burns showing up at Homers door with his team of lawyers and photoshop Yosukes face on Mr Burns and Blake's face on Homer they would be the greatest person alive.
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Blood Music



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not having contracts is what has caused controversy and problems over much classic material by bands like Ulver, Arcturus, and many many more, which has kept that stuff off the streets for decades.

We've also been burned two times by lack of contract.

Only a handful of times have we gone verbal agreement, only on small deals (pressings of 100 copies or so, etc.).

In a perfect world, I would never want to have to do a contract, but it helps to make everyone understand exactly what is their position in the deal.

Not only that, but it's great protection when dealing with larger bands, labels, distros, either now or in the future.

Handshake deals work really well for the first few years, but 10-20 years down the line, it's pretty hard to have everyone agree on all details exactly.

In a perfect world: no contracts.
In the real world: mostly with a few-page contract.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never run a label and most likely never will, but a signed piece of paper is mandatory whenever business is the name of the game. Even the safest and most reliable of friends can and will easily fuck you over when $$$ is the issue at stake.
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Haunt In The Dark



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
Never run a label and most likely never will, but a signed piece of paper is mandatory whenever business is the name of the game.


I personally don't want my music to be released by someone who runs a business instead of a label. You don't run a business the same way as you run a label.
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darkdescentrecords



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 2815

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
NK7 wrote:
Never run a label and most likely never will, but a signed piece of paper is mandatory whenever business is the name of the game.


I personally don't want my music to be released by someone who runs a business instead of a label. You don't run a business the same way as you run a label.


Well, yeah, you do. It's just how tight of a ship some run compared to others. All labels have overhead, expenses, etc...some prefer to tweak a few of the rules but they are businesses (unless you're not speaking in the literal sense). Unless you just have a huge hole in your pocket and a bunch of money to back it up and you don't care about losing money, you have to have some business sense.
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Last edited by darkdescentrecords on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Solarfall



Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 85
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norseman wrote:
I always have my team of lawyers work through and cosign any correspondence I ever have with any label.


Are you Lars Ulrich ?
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