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"Black Metal in the White Tower" thesis
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nonwave



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 1289
Location: Brookyn, NY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is art. there is abstraction

then there is BULLSHIT
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Mr_Belvedere



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I just farted, but actually shat a tiny piece of crap in my pants."² Bears more science in it, than an thesis or book or documentary or anything else done about black metal since NK7s birth.


---------------------
² sad but true fact Sad
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Deströyer



Joined: 11 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

weaklingone wrote:
edit: didnt realize it was a girl. faggot > whore, slag, etc.


This had me laughing for a good few minutes.
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cochino



Joined: 08 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see this being more ridiculous than a 50000 page book on NSBM.
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harmless



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 2146
Location: 101 Reykjavík, Iceland.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
The most retarded example (from Germany, at least) might be this "antifa"-clown Martin Langebach. He used the pseudonym Christian Dornbusch to write a book about "right wing extremism in Black Metal":
http://www.amazon.de/dp/3897718170

And as student, he wrote a thesis about Black Metal per se:
http://www.amazon.de/dp/3836414139

Guess what - this guy was quoting himself (but as Christian Dornbusch) in his own fucking thesis! This is so stupid, but hey - he's now an "expert" on "right wing extremism in Black Metal", giving lectures and writing more books and what-have-you. Rolling Eyes
Given the fact that at least two high ranking politicians have resigned because of similar accusations as those you put forth here I would think it was pretty easy destroying his credibility in the public media. Has this already been brought up publicly and if so what, if any, were the reactions?
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weaklingone



Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 1294
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cochino wrote:
I don't see this being more ridiculous than a 50000 page book on NSBM.


no one said it was.
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Madhukapala



Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 232

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read the thesis in question, so I'm not going to bother to defend anything that guy did specifically. But it seems to me like there's a lot of knee-jerk anti-intellectualism in this thread.

If black/death metal:

1. is an artform that revolves around a consistent set of themes and aesthetics.
2. has a following of highly devoted fans who derive some kind of psychological/spiritual nourishment from those themes and aesthetics
3. you are one of those fans

Then it's worth exploring intellectually.
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Heirophant.326.AV



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 1379
Location: inside the preserved Moose

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madhukapala wrote:
I haven't read the thesis in question, so I'm not going to bother to defend anything that guy did specifically. But it seems to me like there's a lot of knee-jerk anti-intellectualism in this thread.

If black/death metal:

1. is an artform that revolves around a consistent set of themes and aesthetics.
2. has a following of highly devoted fans who derive some kind of psychological/spiritual nourishment from those themes and aesthetics
3. you are one of those fans

Then it's worth exploring intellectually.


Agreed.

However, as someone with (for reasons now unclear even to me) a social sciences degree, I think most of the "research" being presented is pretty worthless. It's not the kind of deep involvement participation you used to see in case studies in the 50's/60's, which were actually pretty interesting to read. It's got its head so far up its own ass due to "critical theory"/"deconstruction" that the basics of research in the field has been totally neglected. It used to be that something like this would only fly if the researcher had spent 5 years or so deeply involved - living in that scene the same way an anthropologist would need to spend a decent amount of time out in the jungle with whatever tribe. Suffice it to say that even as a grad I have a lot of issues with the way this stuff works.
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Madhukapala



Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 232

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heirophant.326.AV wrote:


Agreed.

However, as someone with (for reasons now unclear even to me) a social sciences degree, I think most of the "research" being presented is pretty worthless. It's not the kind of deep involvement participation you used to see in case studies in the 50's/60's, which were actually pretty interesting to read. It's got its head so far up its own ass due to "critical theory"/"deconstruction" that the basics of research in the field has been totally neglected. It used to be that something like this would only fly if the researcher had spent 5 years or so deeply involved - living in that scene the same way an anthropologist would need to spend a decent amount of time out in the jungle with whatever tribe. Suffice it to say that even as a grad I have a lot of issues with the way this stuff works.


Yeah, I understand and sympathize. The vast majority of what passes for "critical theory" is totally uncritical. It's mostly self-indulgent rhetoric, the hollowness of which is often concealed by a lot of moralistic handwaving about "challenging hegemonies" and shit like that. I'm in a similar boat, though my department is more of an oldschool 'humanities' than 'social sciences' thing, which seems to preserve it from the worst excesses of post-post-post-postmodern bullshittery.

Anyway.... The point I wanted to make here is that the goal of 'analyzing' heavy metal (and related topics) is still a valid one, even if people have made a mess of it up until this point.
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Ihslahm



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Black-Metal-Umbrella-Holder/dp/B000S1I0JE/ref=sr_1_13?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1362276052&sr=1-13&keywords=black+metal
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cochino



Joined: 08 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weaklingone wrote:
cochino wrote:
I don't see this being more ridiculous than a 50000 page book on NSBM.


no one said it was.


My comment was aimed towards the dude who made the thread about that NSBM book, and has posted here as well.
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Heirophant.326.AV



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 1379
Location: inside the preserved Moose

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madhukapala wrote:
Heirophant.326.AV wrote:


Agreed.

However, as someone with (for reasons now unclear even to me) a social sciences degree, I think most of the "research" being presented is pretty worthless. It's not the kind of deep involvement participation you used to see in case studies in the 50's/60's, which were actually pretty interesting to read. It's got its head so far up its own ass due to "critical theory"/"deconstruction" that the basics of research in the field has been totally neglected. It used to be that something like this would only fly if the researcher had spent 5 years or so deeply involved - living in that scene the same way an anthropologist would need to spend a decent amount of time out in the jungle with whatever tribe. Suffice it to say that even as a grad I have a lot of issues with the way this stuff works.


Yeah, I understand and sympathize. The vast majority of what passes for "critical theory" is totally uncritical. It's mostly self-indulgent rhetoric, the hollowness of which is often concealed by a lot of moralistic handwaving about "challenging hegemonies" and shit like that. I'm in a similar boat, though my department is more of an oldschool 'humanities' than 'social sciences' thing, which seems to preserve it from the worst excesses of post-post-post-postmodern bullshittery.

Anyway.... The point I wanted to make here is that the goal of 'analyzing' heavy metal (and related topics) is still a valid one, even if people have made a mess of it up until this point.


Yeah, for sure. My undergrad degree was a double-major Philosophy/Sociology one - got a lot out of Philosophy, but the sociology part makes me cringe retrospectivly. I never worked in the field at all - went into IT for a while and now I'm working on an applied science masters.
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ADB



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
Rubbish. Someone should tell students to stop writing thesis papers about the music they listen to from their iPod while the professor is lecturing...

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Carpathian Florist



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

weaklingone wrote:


edit: didnt realize it was a girl. faggot > whore, slag, etc.


Troll-like beast it seems.
http://art.newcity.com/2012/03/27/portrait-of-a-curator-amelia-ishmael/
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DTBRex



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

harmless wrote:
Given the fact that at least two high ranking politicians have resigned because of similar accusations as those you put forth here I would think it was pretty easy destroying his credibility in the public media. Has this already been brought up publicly and if so what, if any, were the reactions?


He does not need to have any credibility whatsoever. He can spout the most outrageous nonsense ever and still, there will be plenty people, from politics over the media to NGO's and what-have-you, who will buy his crap no matter what. Guess why? He's an "antifascist" exposing/denouncing "right-wing extremism". That's all what matters, apparently. No scientific credibility required.

You can make a decent living, plus academic and political career, in Germany by flogging a dead horse aka "Nazism". That's why you have numberless self-declared "experts" on "right-wing extremism" in all colours and shapes; they will find "Nazism" even in harmless child books of Astrid Lindgren for instance.
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