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Iron Maiden
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Up the Irons!
Iron Maiden
20%
 20%  [ 37 ]
Killers
15%
 15%  [ 28 ]
The Number of the Beast
8%
 8%  [ 16 ]
Piece of Mind
11%
 11%  [ 21 ]
Powerslave
15%
 15%  [ 28 ]
Somewhere in Time
13%
 13%  [ 24 ]
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son
14%
 14%  [ 26 ]
No Prayer for the Dying
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
Fear of the Dark
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 183

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NK7
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warcrust wrote:

Isn't it a bit subjective? Who said to you for example 22 Acacia is a timeless Maiden classic? Just because it appeared on Live After Death?

No, because it has become regular part of the band's setlist for a number of years and it's still acclaimed by long-term fans as one of their absolute highlights.

Quote:
And 3 out of 9 on POM, really? How about the already mentioned Die With Your Boots On or Still Life or Sun and Steel? Are you sure these are fillers/less good/non classic songs?

They certainly are not classics. Decent songs but far from making it to the fans' collective memory and hardly ever played live or included in "best of" collections etc.
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Warcrust



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
Warcrust wrote:

Isn't it a bit subjective? Who said to you for example 22 Acacia is a timeless Maiden classic? Just because it appeared on Live After Death?

No, because it has become regular part of the band's setlist for a number of years and it's still acclaimed by long-term fans as one of their absolute highlights.

Quote:
And 3 out of 9 on POM, really? How about the already mentioned Die With Your Boots On or Still Life or Sun and Steel? Are you sure these are fillers/less good/non classic songs?

They certainly are not classics. Decent songs but far from making it to the fans' collective memory and hardly ever played live or included in "best of" collections etc.


Okay mr. NK7, you won!
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Satanic Slut



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:

For me/subjective reality = I like Somewhere in Time better than TNotB because it's the first Maiden I've ever listened to, it holds a special place in my heart as I got the cd from mom as a gift for my 16th birthday in 2011.


I am of the same opinion...except I got Somewhere in time for my 13th b/day in 1987.
Never liked Maiden output much since "Seventh Son..."
People go on about "classic" tracks from the later recordings (i.e "Passchendaele" etc), but I never understood why these tracks were put up on a pedestal. Not one of them has the epicness of something like "Rime.." or even "Alexander the Great".
But at the end of the day for all the greatness of the Dickenson era Maiden, the early songs and gritty vocals of Dianno are where it is at.
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Demoniac



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
Ok, I guess my English simply isn't good enough to make a few concepts clear. Three parameters:

1) Ratio between the number of classic songs and total amount of songs on a given record: TnoTB wins the contest easily, with at least 6 songs out of 8 making it to the list of timeless classics in the bands repertoire (Children, The Prisoner, 22 Acacia, Run to the Hills, The Number, Hallowed). Piece of Mind can count on 3 out of 9 (Revelations, Flight of Icarus, The trooper, may be 4 if one includes Where Eagles Dare) classic songs. Powerslave 5 out of 8 (Aces, Two minutes, Flash of the blade, Powerslave, The ryme).

2) Importance of the album in the context of the band's career: TNotB was far more important than Piece of Mind/Powerslave as it introduced a new singer and proved Maiden could still make it without Di'Anno. It established Maiden as the single most important metal band in the world, the impact it had on both fans and scene was simply stronger.

3) Amount of fillers/less good/non-classic songs: TNotB has one (Gangland), Piece of Mind quite a few, Powerslave at least two (Back in the Village and The duellists, Losfer words never became a real classic either, despite being extremely good).


This is objective reality, everything else is subjective (albeit respectable) taste.


While I agree with alot of your points, "Flash of the Blade" really isnīt a very fitting example, as it is definitely more of an insiderīs tip than a well known classic. Has also never (!) been played live up to this point. On the other hand, thereīs obviously a certain demand for "Die With Your Boots On" and it has been played live quite regularly over the years. Still not a well known classic in the sense of "Numer of the Beast" etc., of course.

Subjective opinion: "The Duellists" is a totally underrated gem - the long instrumental section in the middle is like the definition of Maidenīs signature twin lead guitar style. Killer track, as is "Losfer Words". Wish Maiden would still do instrumental tracks.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoniac wrote:
"Flash of the Blade" really isnīt a very fitting example, as it is definitely more of an insiderīs tip than a well known classic. Has also never (!) been played live up to this point.

Yeah I know it isn't of course. Still it's pretty popular among old fans and it made it to a movie soundtrack so it's no unknown song either. It should have been released as a 12" EP, sometimes Maiden just don't realize the potential in some of their songs or pick up the wrong ones (see Wildest Dreams, Out of the silent planet -why were those released as singles is beyond me).
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Stalinorgel
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"To Tame A Land" is one of the best songs they ever did. Frank Herbert should have acknowledged more:

Quote:
"Frank Herbert doesn't like rock bands, particularly heavy rock bands, and especially bands like Iron Maiden."
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Demoniac



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
sometimes Maiden just don't realize the potential in some of their songs or pick up the wrong ones


No argument there!
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Tireheb



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
sometimes Maiden just don't realize the potential in some of their songs or pick up the wrong ones (see Wildest Dreams, Out of the silent planet -why were those released as singles is beyond me).

I think it's something to do with that they don't anymore have a producer who gives them guidance when needed. Like in Run to the Hills biography it's mentioned that they had no clue which song to pick up as single from Number of the Beast, and Birch instantly said that it should be Run to the Hills. Well rest is pretty obvious history, right? Shirley is not the producer they need, he is just their drinking buddy who pads them on the back.
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Frozen



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is actually the case with a lot of bands these days. Modern technology has turned millions of amateurs into so-called "producers".
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Saltrubbed Eyes



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with some previous posts about The Number Of The Beast, it has the highest ratio of classic songs and gave them a lot of notoriety. It's the one i'd pick if I was ever a reviewer as their best.
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Pestkrieg



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
Warcrust wrote:

Isn't it a bit subjective? Who said to you for example 22 Acacia is a timeless Maiden classic? Just because it appeared on Live After Death?

No, because it has become regular part of the band's setlist for a number of years and it's still acclaimed by long-term fans as one of their absolute highlights.



So, either the band choose to keep it in their set (their subjective choice) or the fans demand it (their subjective choice). It's popular within the fanbase and band, there's no debate about that, and perhaps that's enough to make it classic, but it's hardly a measure of objective quality - could easily be seen as pandering to the demands of a) live shows, which suit high-tempo, singalong songs or b) a fanbase which is hardly guaranteed to have a high average intelligence, or ability to make aesthetic judgements. The Iron Maiden audience isn't much different to the audience for a popular rock band, in terms of it's perception and understanding of aesthetics, and that's hardly likely to provide a compelling case for quality.
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Solarfall



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't evaluate an album quality by counting the ratio of "classic" songs, and call this an objective rating.
In that case, the best IM album would be one of their best-of.

Talking about objectivity in music is pointless, IMO. And that's a good thing.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solarfall wrote:
You can't evaluate an album quality by counting the ratio of "classic" songs, and call this an objective rating.
In that case, the best IM album would be one of their best-of

Quite probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board, and that's saying a lot.


EDIT: Location: France -now everything makes sense.
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Timon



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solarfall wrote:
You can't evaluate an album quality by counting the ratio of "classic" songs, and call this an objective rating.
In that case, the best IM album would be one of their best-of.

Talking about objectivity in music is pointless, IMO. And that's a good thing.


NK7 has just discharged tons of concrete onto your subjectivity.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pestkrieg wrote:
NK7 wrote:
Warcrust wrote:

Isn't it a bit subjective? Who said to you for example 22 Acacia is a timeless Maiden classic? Just because it appeared on Live After Death?

No, because it has become regular part of the band's setlist for a number of years and it's still acclaimed by long-term fans as one of their absolute highlights.



So, either the band choose to keep it in their set (their subjective choice) or the fans demand it (their subjective choice). It's popular within the fanbase and band, there's no debate about that, and perhaps that's enough to make it classic, but it's hardly a measure of objective quality - could easily be seen as pandering to the demands of a) live shows, which suit high-tempo, singalong songs or b) a fanbase which is hardly guaranteed to have a high average intelligence, or ability to make aesthetic judgements. The Iron Maiden audience isn't much different to the audience for a popular rock band, in terms of it's perception and understanding of aesthetics, and that's hardly likely to provide a compelling case for quality.

The democratic approach usually works well to tell what's objectively good from what is objectively bad. If I tell 100 people a joke and 99 don't laugh, the joke is flawed.
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