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Rotting Christ drums?
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crypticus



Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Denver, CO

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Numerous interviews I've read with producers & personal experience as well. I'm been a member of several Pro Audio forums over the years. If you guys go to the Andy Sneap forum he'll even let you download the kick & snare samples he uses for big bands like KRISIUN & ARCH ENEMY!
After some studio work you learn pretty quick how much "cheating" there is behind the scenes. These days it's less hidden & a little more well done, but it's been going on since the early '80s when sampling was developed.
I have many drum sample collections & can point out most of the time which kick is being used, or at least from which collection. For example: DISSECTION, EDGE OF SANITY, early BLOODBATH & a bunch of other stuff produced by Dan Swano all use the "SPIKEDRM" from the Alesis D4 for the kicks. Listen to DEATH's "Leprosy" - It's almost impossible to get a real snare to sound that weird! Laughing
Both MERCILESS DEATH albums also seem to be totally sampled drums except for the cymbals. I know this isn't a studio forum & I'm probably boring the shit out of you, but I thought you guys might find these facts interesting.
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 4658
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting read, however, on a lot of current releases, the drumsound bores the shit out of me.
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tomas



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you listen very closely, you can actually hear those first Death albums, Slayer albums, ... have 'fake' drums. When I started paying attention to the drums on 'Show no mercy' and I noticed something was fake about them, it spoiled some of the fun for me. Sad
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masters_throne



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3435
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterott wrote:
Interesting read, however, on a lot of current releases, the drumsound bores the shit out of me.

Indeed, especially the bass drums are sounding like farts from a shy japanese bukkaked lolita, hehe. But seriously, most of the bass drums is nothing but shit these days.
crypticus wrote:
After some studio work you learn pretty quick how much "cheating" there is behind the scenes.

Indeed, there are many "amusing" stories I could tell, hehe...
crypticus wrote:
I know this isn't a studio forum & I'm probably boring the shit out of you, but I thought you guys might find these facts interesting.

Well, it is a music forum. I think it is interesting...
tomas wrote:
And if you listen very closely, you can actually hear those first Death albums, Slayer albums, ... have 'fake' drums.

How can you make that up (or out? Poor english skills)? Give me an advice please. Is it due to some "irritation" suddenly in the sound or the sound in general?
tomas wrote:
When I started paying attention to the drums on 'Show no mercy' and I noticed something was fake about them, it spoiled some of the fun for me. Sad

Well, at least the Slayer guys didn't make a riddle out of that. I can remember an interview at "ARTE" (<--haha, indeed) where they told about their first studio experiences and that Lombardo even played without cymbals while recording (or something like that, it is about 10 years ago since I have seen that, I guess)...
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crypticus



Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Denver, CO

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

masters_throne wrote:

Indeed, especially the bass drums are sounding like farts from a shy japanese bukkaked lolita


Laughing
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Sadovahr



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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Location: Neverland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crypticus wrote:
After some studio work you learn pretty quick how much "cheating" there is behind the scenes.


I don't think that the use of a drum-machine is always a "cheat". There is a killer local brutal death metal band that I know (no matter which). Their drummer really kicks ass, he's a fuckin great player. They released a CD. During the recordings they run out of money just before the drum part so they choosed to use a software drum machine. Result was fucking great! You can't tell the difference no matter what, you simply can't! Drum machines have developed a lot!!! On the other hand the band never told this openly cause they knew that some people would think of it as "cheating"... BTW I really like drums machines and hyper sonic drum machine black metal!!
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avrlabel



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with you Sadovahr!
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mailweaver



Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all stuff recorded at storm studio is drum machine. Storm studio was just one room with the basics. Sometimes they used to mix things for example the Kawir track "Sin" recorded there in 1993 had drum machine for the snare toms etc and real hi hat played by the acid death guy. go figure
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Blood and Thunder



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 1283
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

masters_throne wrote:
It sounds to me that it is the same game as D666 and their "Phoenix Rising". Human is playing the drums and then it get "digitalized" or something like this. But I am a layperson about this all...


That also had much to do with problems during the recording as I understand it. It was not a desired action as a necessary approach to salvage the drum tracks.
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AlexBlume



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Kansas City, MO

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're starting to record Mike's drums for the 2nd Ares Kingdom album "Incendiary" today in our home studio. A good drummer, a well tuned drum set, and some decent drum mics are ALL you need!!! He plays each song over and over until he gets a take he's happy with, and we move on.

Luckily he hates triggers as do I. They sound like shit, both on recordings and especially live (where the bass drums, snare, and tom all just sound the same and you can't hardly tell which is which), they encourage drummers to barely even hit their drum set live which looks really fucking lame, and they are a crutch so you can 'fix' the drums in the studio, i.e. your drummer can't even get a decent full take.

Oh and the blast beat drummers tell me you HAVE to have them to play that fast. Tell that to fucking J Read, while he stares back at you with no response.

I guess the worst thing is with triggers every snare hit sounds exactly like every other snare hit, etc. That removes so much of the dynamism of the drums as an instrument, I just don't fucking get it.

Or maybe we're just way too old.

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Professor Black



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2117
Location: Evil Nation USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I know the D4 bass drum is all over the place. Hey, it's a good one!

But triggering during the mix and triggering during live playing are kinda different things. Triggering during the mix can be done transparently and to a variety of degrees. Doing it from tape is a lot trickier than doing it in ProTools, and that's why the results are more crude on things like the early 90s Swano recordings or the Exhorder albums. The album I played drums on semi-recently is triggered in the mix (kick and snare) but it's 50% the actual hit and 50% another actual hit. Not from a machine. And I think it sounds awesome.

When it comes to albums I love, I really don't care. Show No Mercy? If they had Clyde Stubblefield come to the studio and program a drum machine for those parts, I condone it fully. I condone whatever cheating it took to make Show No Mercy!
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Antichristhammerfist



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 231
Location: standing over your grave pissing!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexBlume wrote:
Or maybe we're just way too old.


No.. well yeah i guess us old fuckers know how to do it right. Drums on the Diocletian album were done live and are fucking crushing.

In regards to some of these early extreme recordings that have suspicious drum sounds they are most likely recorded with an electronic kit with some ugly reverb in the mix.. so they would have been played either well or badly but alll the same it was still a drummer.

this topic has to be put into perspective.. small studios, very limited recording budgets, travelling with/without band equipment etc etc and we are talking early 90's where digital interfaces in a studio were hardly the norm and not cheap.
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crypticus



Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I'm working on the debut album for TOMBSTONES, which is me, Stevo from IMPETIGO on vocals & Wayne from DECREPITAPH on drums. We're using 100% natural drums & it sounds great! As long as you can get a good, clear recording of each drum there really is no reason to use drum replacement unless it's a stylistic choice or there's mistakes to be fixed. But I totally agree - I still love all those old Death & Thrash albums even with the weirdo drum sounds!
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Last edited by crypticus on Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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alkahest



Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather hear a shitty drummer than a drum machine any day, but that's just me.
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tomas



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@master's throne:
I know what a real snare sounds like, so I always think 'Could they have made a real snare sound like this by turning some knobs on the EQ or changing a few of the other settings?'
The cymbals are usually a give-away too. When bands use drum machines or electric drums, the crash cymbal always sounds the same, it has the same lenght, the same volume, ... Fake hihats are easy to spot too. At least, in recordings that were made in the 80s, when they didn't have all the software plugins they have today. Nowadays they can make it sound more 'human'.

By the way, tell us some of those amusing stories about studio cheating Laughing
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