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Bjorn



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endless Morbidity wrote:
I am ANTI "9/11 Truth" though. I don't believe there was a conspiracy and those that do really get under my skin. They need to change the name of that movement to something else, because no matter how much truth you drop in their laps, they just dismiss it.


The same can be said for the people that believe there was no 'conspiracy' behind it. People on both sides can speak a very convincing argument with so called 'facts' etc... There are alot of 'facts' floating around out there but you can't believe everything you hear. Just because it is on the T.V. and media etc.. saying it was terrorists doesn't mean it is true. And just because there is 'evidence' showing the governments involment etc.. doesn't necessarily mean that is true either.

I tend to keep more of an open mind with subjects like these, look at what each sides motives are and try not take the so called 'facts' or 'truth' as gospel. The further you dive looking for truth, the further away you will be. But of course in some situations things will be more black and white.
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Morbid69



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1604
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure enough that if there was a conspiracy, the "powers that be" wouldn't make such truths privy to guys like you or me.

George Bush is stupid, 9/11 is a conspiracy, Arab conflict theories, whatever. It's all cleverly placed and puppeteered. If "they" didn't want you to know then you wouldn't.

I believe modern day western leftism is feeding from the same hand as those they claim to fight.
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masters_throne



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3435
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I waste hours just to google around to see some pictures of 9/11 and tsunami victims. always fascinating how fast able-bodied (also normal) people fade into lifeless bodies...
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Endless Morbidity



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2108
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morbid69 wrote:
Where were you when it went down? Did you witness any of it? I'm interested in that too. I heard about it through some black metal IRC channel whilst eating breakfast


I live on Long Island, about an hour-a-half away.

Bjorn wrote:
People on both sides can speak a very convincing argument with so called 'facts' etc... There are alot of 'facts' floating around out there but you can't believe everything you hear. Just because it is on the T.V. and media etc.. saying it was terrorists doesn't mean it is true.


Fair enough. I did look into the Conspiracy Theories, which is why I can safely say they are bogus now. I don't go by what the mainstream media or even official records say, as much as I go by what the people who were THERE and involved (Firemen, Police, Rescue Workers, etc.) have said.

The conspiracy morons take things and twist them around and demand reasonable explanations for things that took place during a moment of complete and utter chaos. Because there was a few conflicting reports on the day it happened, they think this is "proof" of a conspiracy.

They also blast "yellow journalism" and the mainstream media, while at the same time, use bits and pieces of it to support their claims. They reconstruct facts from it.

Just look at one of the leaders behind the movement: Alex Jones. This guy has to be the biggest piece of shit on the face of the earth today. For him to actually have the nuts to take the word of the Firemen who were in the building and then reinterpreting them for the idiots that follow him.

Of course like most morons that walk the earth today, when you debunk their nonsense, they can never retort with anything other than personal insults, telling you that you are wrong (without evident) and then trying to brush you under the carpet.
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Endless Morbidity



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2108
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morbid69 wrote:
I'm sure enough that if there was a conspiracy, the "powers that be" wouldn't make such truths privy to guys like you or me.

George Bush is stupid, 9/11 is a conspiracy, Arab conflict theories, whatever. It's all cleverly placed and puppeteered. If "they" didn't want you to know then you wouldn't.

I believe modern day western leftism is feeding from the same hand as those they claim to fight.


The "9/11 Truth Movement" really consists of whackos, people with no lives and mainly, people with a contempt for George Bush.

What they claim is so ridiculous and the way they present it is so ignorant, that I'm sure they have actually helped Bush win some people on his side.

Well, a writer for Rolling Stone said it better than I could:

""gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes." (from a review of Loose Change)
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OrdenSatani



Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 292
Location: Riding A Virgin

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"The conspiracy morons take things and twist them around and demand reasonable explanations for things that took place during a moment of complete and utter chaos. Because there was a few conflicting reports on the day it happened, they think this is "proof" of a conspiracy. "


This kind of attitude reminds me of the "Creationists" who spend years looking for any little error or inexplicable aspect in science and scientific theories and think that is proof enough that the entire thing is invalid, as if their own theory ISN'T full of holes.
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Endless Morbidity



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2108
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. They use the most tiny little detail and blow it up to use as proof that everything is a big lie.
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Bjorn



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morbid69 wrote:
I'm sure enough that if there was a conspiracy, the "powers that be" wouldn't make such truths privy to guys like you or me.

George Bush is stupid, 9/11 is a conspiracy, Arab conflict theories, whatever. It's all cleverly placed and puppeteered. If "they" didn't want you to know then you wouldn't.

I believe modern day western leftism is feeding from the same hand as those they claim to fight.


Thats one reason why i said you can't believe all of what you hear.

I believe the same way as you that if "the powers that be" are really in control and are that powerful then they wouldnt let information 'slip' out. They would be 'leaking' certain informations out themselves to 'control' us more or to divert our attention away while they are doing something else for example.

Endless Morbidity wrote:
Of course like most morons that walk the earth today, when you debunk their nonsense, they can never retort with anything other than personal insults


I found that part of your quote funny. Not because of what you are saying but the way you said it. You are saying how people react with personal insults etc.. when you debunk their theory etc.. but you started with a personal insult towards those people by calling them "morons" hehe As well as a few other insults in your last message Wink I'm not trying to attack you... because i believe the same thing in regards to how people react. I just found it amusing. Very Happy


Endless Morbidity wrote:
I did look into the Conspiracy Theories, which is why I can safely say they are bogus now.


I can see alot of things the 'conspiritors" say to have validity but i also can see that the majority of what is said to be bogus. Same goes for the non-conspirators. Its the bogus stuff that gets brought out more and used by each side to attack or debunk the other. Im sure you will be able to find truth in what both sides say, you just have to go thru so much crap to get to it though hehe


Im starting to get quite tired now (big day at work) so sorry if i am not making any sense or not.
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Endless Morbidity



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2108
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bjorn wrote:
Endless Morbidity wrote:
Of course like most morons that walk the earth today, when you debunk their nonsense, they can never retort with anything other than personal insults


I found that part of your quote funny. Not because of what you are saying but the way you said it. You are saying how people react with personal insults etc.. when you debunk their theory etc.. but you started with a personal insult towards those people by calling them "morons" hehe As well as a few other insults in your last message Wink I'm not trying to attack you... because i believe the same thing in regards to how people react. I just found it amusing. Very Happy


Well, I have no problem with insults. I just have a problem with them, when they are used as cowardly last resort and a result of bitterness at having been proven wrong. If they insulted me, after proving me wrong instead of just saying "no sorry dude, that is wrong. Case closed"...then OK.

I don't have to show them respect and can insult them all day. Cause if you ever watched them in action and saw their tactics, they show nobody any respect nor conduct themselves in a respectable manner. They don't debate. They argue, insult, point fingers and talk over anyone that opposes them. Just look at two of the main leaders in the movement. I'll call them morons, assholes, losers, whatever...because to anyone who doesn't believe everything they say is a sheep, blind, brainwashed, a government agent, a co-conspirator, etc.
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Morbid69



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1604
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Politics in the modern age is nothing but folly of the highest order. The republic is a long dead ideal. Any information you find concerning modern history, finance, humanitarian welfare has been tendered to by hundreds of pairs of hands at the behest of "the powers that be"

Relating to this thread, this is a large reason why I collect antiquarian books concerning philosophy and religion. The Old Testament has many different carnations, differing through the centuries with hosts of physical and financial power.

The further back you look, the more pure the information you find ....
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Bjorn



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endless Morbidity wrote:
Bjorn wrote:
Endless Morbidity wrote:
Of course like most morons that walk the earth today, when you debunk their nonsense, they can never retort with anything other than personal insults


I found that part of your quote funny. Not because of what you are saying but the way you said it. You are saying how people react with personal insults etc.. when you debunk their theory etc.. but you started with a personal insult towards those people by calling them "morons" hehe As well as a few other insults in your last message Wink I'm not trying to attack you... because i believe the same thing in regards to how people react. I just found it amusing. Very Happy


Well, I have no problem with insults. I just have a problem with them, when they are used as cowardly last resort and a result of bitterness at having been proven wrong. If they insulted me, after proving me wrong instead of just saying "no sorry dude, that is wrong. Case closed"...then OK.

I don't have to show them respect and can insult them all day. Cause if you ever watched them in action and saw their tactics, they show nobody any respect nor conduct themselves in a respectable manner. They don't debate. They argue, insult, point fingers and talk over anyone that opposes them. Just look at two of the main leaders in the movement. I'll call them morons, assholes, losers, whatever...because to anyone who doesn't believe everything they say is a sheep, blind, brainwashed, a government agent, a co-conspirator, etc.


I've seen people from both sides acting in the way you described. No matter what the topic is, you will always come across people like that, on all sides. Its just a shame that the people that act like dickheads are the ones that get the most exposure and are what the general public see as a representation of a certain group. Just look at how the general public view the whole of the metal community because of some braindead metal fans for example.
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Bjorn



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morbid69 wrote:
Politics in the modern age is nothing but folly of the highest order. The republic is a long dead ideal. Any information you find concerning modern history, finance, humanitarian welfare has been tendered to by hundreds of pairs of hands at the behest of "the powers that be"

Relating to this thread, this is a large reason why I collect antiquarian books concerning philosophy and religion. The Old Testament has many different carnations, differing through the centuries with hosts of physical and financial power.

The further back you look, the more pure the information you find ....


How can you be sure that the information you find from looking further back holds more truth or any truth at all? Writtings from earlier periods aren't always safe from false or misleading information steering the reader into certain directions. Anything written or spoken by man from any period has the potential to give false information.

I guess this kind of thing can be classed as a hobby for me also. I spend most of my work day debating things like this with a fello worker. I do enjoy reading/researching/learning/talking about history, religion, philosophy etc.. even if certain things can have the potential of being incorrect.
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Morbid69



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1604
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bjorn wrote:

How can you be sure that the information you find from looking further back holds more truth or any truth at all? Writtings from earlier periods aren't always safe from false or misleading information steering the reader into certain directions. Anything written or spoken by man from any period has the potential to give false information.


You arent going far back enough; Think beyond 12th century Europe.
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Bjorn



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morbid69 wrote:
Bjorn wrote:

How can you be sure that the information you find from looking further back holds more truth or any truth at all? Writtings from earlier periods aren't always safe from false or misleading information steering the reader into certain directions. Anything written or spoken by man from any period has the potential to give false information.


You arent going far back enough; Think beyond 12th century Europe.


I can see what you mean. I research ancient civilizations etc.. that are around before 12th century Europe and find it fascinating. But without actually reading/seeing something that is an original from a given period, your information stil has potential to be twisted. Even those original items have potential to give misleading information. There have been figure heads, leaders etc.. in any civilization since the dawn of time, in which any have the potential to act the same way as those of today. Also, even if the information that is found is 100% spot on, the interpretation of that information can be taken many different ways.
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chrisandrea



Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 299
Location: BRISTOL UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dress up as a woman , and go looking for fights with Skinheads
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