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Black metal: stale and boring for last 15 years?
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chambord



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conservationist wrote:
chambord wrote:
There's plenty of excellent black metal out there in my book.


Lots of people say that, but they rarely mention them, and in the past I've never been impressed by these lists picked more for novelty and rarity than musical power.


Yes, but musical preference differs from person to person. To state "all black metal is bad these days" as though it were fact is obviously not going to be agreed upon by everyone. Clearly more people are buying black metal these days than ever before - and I speak of the underground stuff, not Dimmu, Immortal, etc.

Well if you want some stuff I've enjoyed over the last 15 years..
Ordog
Kermania
Kvist
Niden Div 187
Blut Aus Nord
Xasthur

There's heaps I could think of, but you seem to have your mind made up so why bother attempting to change your mind? ;p Also, remember there were also a lot of really terrible bands around back in 91/92/93 as well. I used to get dubs all the time back then of some pretty horrible black metal bands back then. It's easy to romanticize the past.
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Pro Abortion



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 375

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoldenBull wrote:
Pro Abortion wrote:
Morbid69 wrote:
Negative Plane, Katharsis, Christicide, Weapon, Misery's Omen, Urfaust, Kaosritual, S.V.E.S.T, Absu, Prevalent Resistance, Luror, The Ruins of Beverast, Paysage D'Hiver....

Black metal sure does suck lately.


don't forget Funeral Mist.


I tried not to forget them, but their albums forced me to.


yeah, Funeral Mist would be great if it wasn't for their albums
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nexxxion



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endless Morbidity wrote:
I don't think people today actually like what flows from their speakers. They enjoy having "contacts", hanging out and showing off the latest t-shirt they bought. They enjoy being apart of something. This is the only logical explanation I have for the total lack of standard today and why people are so quick to shout "killer!" in regards to any pathetic attempt to make Metal that comes down the pike. Every week it's a new band who is a mix between *blank* and *blank*.

Bands in the 80's never had "let me know what you think" attempt to making Metal. They had attitude and weren't afraid to say "we're the best, fuck you". Bands today come across like hobbyists and the "fans" come off like ass lickers, too afraid to tell the truth, out of fear of what the "scene" might think of them.

In the 80's and even the early 90's, you can make a mix tape and each band sounded different and had their own identity. The bands were good enough to where people didn't need a million different ones for their little "scene". Bands today try to be original, but since they don't understand Metal, they can't manage to do it without just coming across as totally stupid.

What is a scene anyway? Besides a social club? "Support the scene" is the most stupid concept I can think of. Because it means to support any ol' dog shit just for the sake of having the social club.

"They have long hair, pointy guitars and are loud and fast! Support! If you don't, then you must not like Metal!"

Support good bands, not Metal in general or scenes.


You make too substantial posts. How does that feel in the midst of forum-dwellers and witty bullshit?

I say metal people can be divided into those that follow for sociological reasons (the majority) and those with their own plan.

On topic: people are always crying about the good old times, that's something I learned already as a kid watching old people.
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Conservationist
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chambord wrote:
Yes, but musical preference differs from person to person.


Yes, some people like bad music!

However, objectively we can look at music and tell how much it's actually different from the dreck most people are listening to.

I guess the eye opener for me was writing code that generated music. Input a few simple rules, and it's Kelly Clarkson... and if you distort it and make it faster, it's "underground" but still the same musical substance.

chambord wrote:
Also, remember there were also a lot of really terrible bands around back in 91/92/93 as well. I used to get dubs all the time back then of some pretty horrible black metal bands back then. It's easy to romanticize the past.


Yes, but there were also really good bands while today there are so-so bands and even more really horrible ones.

nexxxion wrote:
On topic: people are always crying about the good old times, that's something I learned already as a kid watching old people.


And there's the possibility that they're right. Just because one person says it's gonna rain and is wrong doesn't mean that everyone who says that is automatically wrong.
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Morbid69



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me add TARANIS from Belgium to my list.
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Conservationist
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chambord wrote:

Ordog
Kermania


Morbid69 wrote:
Let me add TARANIS from Belgium to my list.


Downloading. Thanks both for the rexxx.
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chambord



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very welcome. I think there are several Ordogs.. the one I refer to is from Scotland I believe. "Position Two" is a fine album indeed. If you have difficulties finding it, pm me.
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Moonchild666



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 354
Location: Denmark (Fredericia)

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chambord wrote:
Very welcome. I think there are several Ordogs.. the one I refer to is from Scotland I believe. "Position Two" is a fine album indeed. If you have difficulties finding it, pm me.

Love that band! Great stuff. (Actually the first LP from 1997 is called "Position One". The second is just called "Two".)
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chambord



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, thanks for the clarification. It's a shame they were shortlived.
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WarDog



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 351
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voodoo Idol wrote:
Too much fucking time is what you people have, WAY too much. I wish I had these problems.


You don't see the dissimulation of your post? You must have as much time as we do in order to read, even if only a bit, of this thread and give your opinion. If you do not want to discuss something like this then why join a forum dedicated to the discussion of Music, and in particular underground Metal?

No one ever said this was a problem, or that this was their only problem, either. I can't speak for everyone but I know that I, myself don't think this is a problem it's simply just a way to get my opinion out, and on top of this I do have real problems (I have been on Methadone for 2 years and about ready to kick because I am an ex-Heroin addict, I have to go back to jail (3rd time) on April 29th for a 6 month stay, and I lost my job) but if you want to turn this into a dick swinging contest about personal problems then maybe we could start a "Emo" sub-forum?

We buy the albums, we don't buy the albums, who gives a fuck? If we don't like an album (or the faults of a genere, in this instance) and someone is talking about it on a public forum, where opinions are expressed, then I would say this would be the best place to discuss it.

Quote:
If that's not enough, do something about it by starting an original band instead of writing up pseudo-analytical bullshit on a message board


Lastly, this thread is based around our individual perceptions of the style of Metal and the way it has left an impression upon us, whether that impression is good or bad, therefore, we are making pseudo-conceptial remarks, not pseudo-analytical. Just so you know.
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Sadovahr



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1084
Location: Neverland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a great band that I remembered cause I listen to their demos yesterday is Mortuary Temple!!!!! Massive releases, massive black metal overload!!!!!!
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SpectralRipper



Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 524
Location: Luxembourg

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conservationist wrote:
FuneralCircle wrote:
The 80s was not because of how many great bands there were, it was because that's when the attitude of the music was at its peak, in its most raw and unforgiving form.


The 80s was kind of a void, except for Celtic Frost/Hellhammer, Sodom, Sarcofago, Merciless, and early death metal.

Then the 1990s were really good for awhile.

Now besides Portal, there's just not much. Nothing has any fucking balls. The Baron from Amebix said something about that:

"I think that actually it is the same as when we started: 99% of people who want to make a band base themselves on someone else; there are so very few that are manifesting anything unique only to themselves. People do not take risks."

You know what, I fucking trust him and Wagner Antichrist more as commentators on the black metal scene and its health than people who collect boring music.

You know who you are Wink

Nu-black is really gay. There are a handful of bands that don't suck... and the rest are as boring as hardcore, just repeat the same stuff without an idea behind it.

People who doubt that are afraid because they know it's true and they're wasting their lives listening to shit. If they had self-esteem, they'd demand better music.

I won't waste my fucking time on anything but excellent metal!


well well...i agree and disagree at same time.

i enjoy shit like aquer, perversor, obeisance, syphilitic vaginas, ondskapt, silencer, inquisition etc etc and i really don't mind how original it is.if i'd listen to the most original shit and try to avoid everything else i'd proly listen to fushitsusha , nurse with wound ,suicide and all the other ultra weird shit out there. baron obviously had balls saying what you quoted considering amebix sounds like flipper/motorhead/killing joke put in a blender. i enjoy shit by bands that i think have the spirit. besides lots of times you go back to a band you avoided coz sometime later you figure out they kicked ass.
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Conservationist
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points. As has become the norm in this thread, I agree and disagree.

When I talk about the originality of a band, I'm not talking about "originality" of sound, but quality of art. That includes content, necessarily. I can take the Best of Bette Middler, play it on guitars and invent a neat guitar sound, cool vocals, etc. and release it, but it's still the Best of Bette Middler inside.

In other words, an album isn't style alone. It's a style that captures the mood of whatever that album is describing. So the content defines the style. But if that is done in reverse, you end up with shit, -or- just a recombined bunch of stuff that worked for someone else.

Edit: to sound less constipated.
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metalmaster



Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 246
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that for (most of) those like me who have listened Black Metal for many many years the genere has turned into something boring, for newer guys new bands would sound great. To me it is boring and meet and hear only bands playing old formulas and in most of caes are pathetic clones and wannabe seudo evil guys trrying to impress frinds and girls...

In the pat Black Metal was exciting and, even shocking as someone mentioned here.... now is almost a joke, a very very boring one
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Conservationist
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalmaster wrote:
I think that for (most of) those like me who have listened Black Metal for many many years the genere has turned into something boring, for newer guys new bands would sound great.


I guess a lot of it depends on what you come to expect from black metal.

New fans find new bands, who are kind of like hardcore bands. Different styles, same songwriting, same ideas.

Old bands have roughly the same style, and similar ideas, but each has its own personality and is a clear leader. There are no leaders now.

So if you come into the genre on the new bands, you might end up hating the quality bands... they don't fit your image.
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